Marriott Travel Packages: worst-case scenario

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The Marriott Travel Package Conversion chart is out, and it isn’t very pretty. The outcome was pretty close to Greg’s worst-case scenario. While I had assumed that Marriott was refusing to tell us how the certificates would map because they intended an overly generous solution, the outcome wssn’t so generous at all: most people who didn’t attach a certificate before are actually losing value, and many could have paid less to get the same thing. It’s a disappointing end and I think a missed opportunity for Marriott to wow customers on Day 1 of the new program.

The Mapping Chart

Here is the chart that Marriott provided to show us how Travel Packages would map:

a table with text and images

And here is how they explained that chart:

No certificate is losing value in terms of points, and with the new free night award chart that goes live today 70% of our properties either stayed at the same threshold or moved down. As we structured the conversion chart, we took into account the introduction of peak and off-peak redemption rates which will be introduced in early 2019. This means, that if you have an existing Category 9 certificate which maps to Category 6 starting today, holders will still be able to attach a stay when rates within that category are at their highest.

Wow. That’s an overly generous characterization.The reality is that this mapping creates more losers than winners in terms of the value of Travel Package certificates. Here are some of the key groups that came out behind.

a chess piece on a chessboard

Anyone who bought a Category 6, 8, Ritz Tier 1-3 package

This one is simple: if you bought any of the above Travel Packages, you might feel like you got robbed of 30K points. That’s because you could have bought the next level down for 30K points fewer and ended up with the same thing. By a stroke of luck, I was inspired to upgrade my Category 6 certificate to a Category 9 at the last minute on Friday afternoon, giving me a very small win. If I’d have stuck with the Category 6, I’d have felt like it was a raw deal since I could have bought a Cat 1-5 and ended up with the same thing: a “new” Category 1-4 certificate. Surely those who bought these categories will feel like Marriott kept us in the dark to soak some folks for 30K extra points.

Of course, the other perspective is that Marriott designed these packages for people to book a hotel category rather than hold onto a certificated as some type of stored value. And in fact they gave us quite a bit of notice to search for good value. For instance, if I had kept my Category 6 and attached it to a reservation at the JW Marriott Phu Quoc, I’d have gotten a week at a property that now costs 35K points per night — both getting more value than I “paid” for and more value than I could if I waited until today to attach it.

Anyone who bought a Ritz Tier 4-5 package

The best this group can do is come out even, but if you bought this certificate and intended to make a reservation this year, you are coming out behind. That’s this package that was valid at properties that charged up to 70K points (Ritz Tier 4). In the new program, the top-tier properties will only cost 60K points per night until early 2019. In off-peak periods, this certificate will buy you a 50K property. There is one small upside: it looks like next year’s Category 8 hotels are listed as Category 7 for now, so I believe you’ll be able to attach this certificate to what will become Category 8 properties if you do so before early 2019.

Anyone who stays at a non-peak time

While Marriott has pat itself on the back a number of times with claims about how many properties are going down in price, they make that claim based on the new “standard” pricing of hotels. Yet they mapped these certificates based on peak pricing. Marriott is claiming that properties went down in price based on standard pricing yet they are telling you your Travel Package certificate maintained its value based on peak pricing. Talk about trying to have your cake and eat it, too!

For example, imagine a property that was old Category 6 — that category was 30K points per night yesterday. If Marriott has now classified that property as a Category 4 (25K points per night at standard pricing), they have claimed that it went down in price (a claim that Stephen Pepper has shown isn’t really as genuine as Marriott would like you to believe). Your old Category 6 Travel Package certificate used to work at properties that cost 30K — but now it will buy you 7 nights at that same former Category 6 hotel. If that hotel decreased in price, and the maximum value of your certificate will not get you something more than 7 nights at that same property, did your certificate not decrease in value also? Marriott will tell you it maintained its value, but that is a half-truth at best.

Almost anyone who will use a certificate during “standard” or “off-peak” pricing times

As noted above, Marriott made a pretty chart based on peak pricing to try to show Travel Package certificates maintaining value. Peak pricing won’t even debut until sometime next year — and even then, you may not stay at a peak time. Here’s a chart showing how the packages are mapping based on “standard” and “off-peak” pricing:

Existing  (old) Travel Package Certificate  Old value per night New value per night at standard pricing New value per night at off-peak pricing
Cat 1-5 25K 25K 20K
Cat 6 30K 25K 20K
Cat 7 35K 35K 30K
Cat 8 40K 35K 30K
Cat 9 45K 50K 40K
Ritz Tier 1-3 50K 50K 40K
Ritz Tier 4-5 70K 60K 50K

You’ll note that there is only a single cell shaded in green above. That’s the only scenario where the new certificates are a win. That’s it. Any other certificate and the best you did was break even if you reserve during a standard or off-peak time (and remember that if you make a reservation before early 2019, even if you stay during late 2019, there is only standard pricing — meaning that if you intended to make a reservation before 2019, the true value you’re getting is based on the standard pricing column above.

Remember that probably you still won

I won’t lie — I’m really disappointed in the way that Marriott handled thi. However, I think it is important to keep in mind that travel package certificates were a good value for most people.

For example, a Category 8 certificate was 360K Marriott points — the equivalent of 120K Starpoints. Had you converted those Starpoints directly to airline miles, you could have had 150K airline miles (and no hotel stay). With a travel package, you essentially gave up the opportunity to earn 30K miles in exchange for a 7-night certificate which is now valid at properties that cost 35K points at standard pricing. That’s not bad.

And from that perspective, most packages aren’t a terrible deal. If you otherwise would have used your points for airline miles, you could look at this from the perspective of an opportunity cost in terms of the number of miles you could have had (over the 120K that came with the package). In essence, you gave up this number of “extra” miles you could have had in order to get a 7-night certificate. See the following chart for your opportunity cost in miles for each level.

Existing  (old) Travel Package Certificate  Old cost in Starpoints Number of miles you could have had Opportunity cost of 7-night certificate in miles
Cat 1-5 90K 110K -10K (this one is a win in miles)
Cat 6 100K 125K 5K
Cat 7 110K 135K 15K
Cat 8 120K 150K 30K
Cat 9 130K 160K 40K
Ritz Tier 1-3 140K 175K 55K
Ritz Tier 4-5 180K 225K 105K

As you can see, that’s a pretty reasonable trade in most cases for a 7-night hotel stay. In my opinion, the value starts to becom questionable at Ritz Tier 1-3 since 55K Alaska miles could be redeemed for a 1-way business class ticket to Australia. Whether or not you’ll get an equivalent value out of the 7-night certificate depends on how you use it (and whether or not you would have used those miles to go to Australia or some other similarly-valuable use). The Ritz Tier 4-5 package represents the largest opportunity cost, and it isn’t small.

It’s disappointing that Marriott massively devalued the 7-night certificate for those who did not yet attach it, but it was still a good deal in most instances.

Bottom line

Marriott noted that they were encouraging members to attach certificates before 8/18 if members knew where they would like to stay. I wasn’t sure what to make of that, but it is now clear that the reason to attach was to avoid losing value. As mentioned above, I upgraded my 6 to a 9 before the deadline. I was tempted to leave it unattached, but Greg convinced me that there would be no harm in attaching since the likely worst-case scenario would be that I would get the same value out of the certificate as an unattached certificate — and he is right. Those who attached a certificate to a property going up in value certainly came out of this much better off as the certificate would otherwise lose value for everyone but Category 9 holders. Here’s hoping you attached your certificate — and that you can now make that trip work, otherwise you’re facing a devaluation.

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[…] the new Marriott Rewards to Marriott Bonvoy travel package mappings were announced, we were bitterly disappointed.  Not only didn’t we win big, but many certificate holders seemed to lose.  If you had […]

DonDover

I am still confused about how to proceed and need some help. I bought a Category 6 seven night package on 08/15 and am not sure about what I should do regarding asking for the 30k bonus refund or booking a stay. Example: I am interested in the Westin Cayman resort which right now is listed as a Category 6 hotel on the Marriott site. Will my package certificate change in designation and no longer be a “6”? If so, should I book now while the Westin and my certificate match? And if I ask for the 30k refund now, will that cause something which will prevent me form booking the Westin? Thank you for any help

Mary Jane

To Nick, Greg or anybody, I am going to cancel a Starwood booking at a Westin that I had booked last month with Starwood points. Does anybody know if I will get my starwood points x3 back (since now it will be in Marriott points)?

[…] Nick reported in the post “Marriott Travel Packages: worst-case scenario, we were far from thrilled with the way Marriott has handled the conversion of old travel packages […]

5150d

Nick – Check out Lucky’s post at OMAAT:

Existing Travel Package certificates can be redeemed starting today

Initially Marriott said that you wouldn’t be able to redeem existing Travel Package certificates until September 18, 2018. This one month period where you couldn’t redeem was supposedly due to potential issues Marriott was worried they’d have with their new technology.

As it turns out that isn’t an issue and they’ve completed the testing necessary. As a result you’ll be able to redeem existing Travel Package certificates starting today.

Some members can get partial refunds on Travel Packages

Members who booked a Category 6, Category 8, or Tier 1-3 Travel Package can receive a one-time exchange for a package one category lower.

The reason this is being done for these categories is because in all cases you’d get the same value if you had booked a hotel that’s one category lower, so as a gesture of goodwill Marriott will refund 30,000 points per certificate for those who request it.

This one-time exchange can be requested by contacting Marriott at this link, and selecting the “packages – deals” topic.

You actually have until these certificates expire in order to exchange them, and once you do, the certificates will once again be valid for a year, so you can potentially make that work in your favor.

Trade existing certificates for points

With Marriott Travel Packages you’ve always been able to exchange your certificate for a set number of points, and this will continue to be possible for existing certificates issued prior to August 18, at the same rates as before.

Category 1-5 certificates can be traded for 45,000 points, and higher level certificates can be traded for 45,000 points plus the difference in cost between certificates.

TomC

@MarriottRewards @Marriott Report Marriott Travel Certificate Fraud to your state’s consumer protection office. Use this @USAgov website to find your state’s office. Fight Back! #MarriottTraveler #Marriott #marriottrewards #MarriottFraud https://www.usa.gov/state-consumer

phillip

honestly, why do you guys care so much? YOU ALL KNEW that it was gamble, which means there is a chance that you WONT come out ahead. You knew the terms and conditions of the travel packages wont be released until after the merger which means nothing anyone says is 100% concrete. I took a gamble too, I lost, its 30k points not the end of the world jesus. Marriott also told you guys to attach your certs BEFORE the merger, and if you dont know your travel dates for sure then dont buy a package. Or be like me and buy it but also know that you can win OR lose at the end of the day. Keep crying crybabies, they will never refund you your 30k points…

dave

Wow “Philip” with Marriott is working overtime with these posts. Hope they’re paying you time and a half!

Jamie

I’d like to book a SPG cat 4 hotel using the 7 night certificate with travel starting 9/21. Right now the hotel shows 7 nights availability but it may not have the availability if I book on 9/18. Can I book the hotel using points now and after 9/18 ask Marriott to attach the 7-night certificate?

Probably

My accounts are still separate. My sisters accounts are still separate. I thought they’re supposed to combine accounts. Now how do you combine accounts

James

Grab the pitchforks, people! Burn the witches!

cytraveler

So I converted a cat 1-5 to a cat 6 Friday night – not long before the end, since it took awhile to get through. I intend to use the cert at a place that was cat 7, and is now cat 5. At first the person said it could only be done if I’m making a reservation, but when I said I didn’t know my dates (which is true), she put me on hold to get a supervisor to help. After some time, she said the conversion was made. When I checked online 30 minutes later the site was already down, so I don’t know what it said. But of course I was VERY irritated when I saw today that unless Marriott steps up, I used 30k for absolutely nothing, and may not be able to book at the hotel I was planning on.

But today, it says “P870 PARTIAL PKG-CAT 6” with expiration date of 8/17/2019. I took a screenshot.

Did anyone else have this? I’m wondering if I did it so late that it slid in as a cat 6 under the new rules? If so, I’m going to just keep my head down. If it then converts back to cat 1-4, I’ll holler and show the screenshot.

Here’s hoping Marriott comes through for everyone. Probably won’t, but you never know.

fll

It is the OLD Cat 6. This is the exact description on an upgraded Old Cat 5 to Old Cat 6
Mine that was upgraded in June read identically like yours. P870 is the code of partial cert whenever you have done any extension / downgrade / upgrade to an original cert.

You have not gotten a windfall. No need to keep your heads down as you are screwed just like all us the Cat 6 and 8 cert holders.

cytraveler

So, does everyone’s cert still read with the old category? If anyone’s has converted, what does it say?

Blue

They haven’t run whatever back end script they need to actually do the conversion. Since they can’t be touched for a month it may be a bit/is probably pretty complicated.

Platinum

Yes, I have that. I actually downgraded from a 7 to a cat 5 which I knew woild become cat 1-4. I have a use for it and wanted 60k back in my account to be more flexible with one or two nights and top properties. I got the 60k points difference back in my account and the new 7 day cert does have the Partial Package wording. I am not worried about the verbiage and i have screen shots of everything. I think its just their new way of notating things.

I originally was going to buy a 6 but went with the 7 as all the bloggers were pushing the 6, saying Marriott would probably be generous and I didn’t believe that which is why I went for the 7 as a sure thing for mapping. But, since I like the cat 1-4 hotels and would rather have more points I ended up doing the downgrade on Friday night around 10:00pm.

Susan

Seems like you were smart. I bought a 6 and 8 and attached them to reservations before the 18th even though both properties we wanted were going down in price. We knew our dates and wanted to make plane reservations. Not knowing what would happen to unattached certs I took the chance that I would lose points. And boy, did I – 60k points lost. Oh well. We’ll still enjoy our trips.

Frank

Marriott says 70% of their hotels are going down or staying the same, which leaves 30% going up. As far as the packages are concerned, we care only about new Cat 4 and up. Has anyone done any analysis of what percentage goes up in these categories?

Eileen Kerrigan

I don’t think that’s correct. From what I read when they first published the new categories a month or so ago, it was more like 70% going UP. They may be technically going down in category (e.g., from a 6 to a 5), but the “price” (in points) goes up, especially when they start charging peak rates in 2019.

Frank

Can’t see my 4 packages at all online. I bought 3 for cat 1-5 and 1 for Cat 7, so I suppose I am OK in that area. The new web site is all correct for me in the combined points except my latest SPG card earnings are absent. AMEX was quite unhelpful when I called.

Blue

They should be in the activity tab.

Your Amex Marriott points aren’t in SPG yet but the statement should show them.

Frank

OK, thanks. I now looked up through my old Marriott login and they are there. Obviously Marriott and SPG have not yet merged as I see them as they were last week, except for my missing SPG points from my last statement in early August. Presumably it will all work out OK.

Colleen

On a separate note, have you looked at the #of nights and SNAs? Mine are incorrect. I had 11 SNA and now shows 10 SNAs. I am also missing nights stays on SPG side for this year. Ugh. Does anyone else see discrepancies on their account?

fll

Here are 2 lone DPs I found in the comment sections of 2 different blogs.

1) One person posted after 8pm on OMAAT that he canceled his Cat 6 cert and received 75K pts refund which already showed in his account.

2) One person posted in the middle of the night in the comment section of a Chinese blog that he was told once Merger is completed, Cat 6 will receive 30K refund.

I suggest for those who are wronged in this conversion, start calling Marriott and report back what you are being told.