Doctor of Credit reported on some rumored changes being considered to the lineup of Amex Marriott business credit cards. The changes would make the business cards more closely mirror the consumer cards, with a couple of changes that will surely provoke strong feelings.
Rumored changes to the existing Amex Bonvoy Business card
Doctor of Credit is reporting on information that has been gleaned from surveys sent to Amex Marriott cardholders. That means that these are changes that Amex is considering but which are not yet set in stone. It is possible that we will see exactly the things being floated in the survey, but it is also possible that none of it happens or that there are significant changes based on survey response.
The following would be the new structure of the Amex Marriott Business card if the changes came to pass as they are being surveyed:
- 6x Marriott
- 4x Global dining, US Gas, US Shipping, US wireless
- 2x everywhere else
- $160 Marriott property credit per year ($80 twice a year) to be used on Marriott properties or on-property activities
- Gold status
- 15 Elite Night credits
- 10% Points Booking Discount
- Annual Fee: $150
The key changes from the current structure would be:
- Elimination of the 35K free night certificate at anniversary
- $25 increase in the annual fee
- Addition of 10% points discount
- Addition of twice-annual $80 Marriott credit
Quick thoughts on Amex Bonvoy Business rumored changes
At first glance, the loss of the 35K Free Night Certificate would sting. I typically get at least $200-$300 in value from those certificates, which has made the card easily worth its annual fee for me.
Essentially replacing that with two $80 Marriott credits and a 10% discount on award pricing doesn’t feel like a good trade unless you redeem a lot of Marriott points each year (and even then, dynamic award pricing means that Marriott can simply increase what they charge for properties to compensate for the “discount”).
Still, if you need the annual elite night credits from this card, it will probably be worth keeping given the Marriott credits and whatever value you can squeeze out of the 10% discount. If you don’t really need the elite night credits, I can’t see this card being very interesting. As someone who will hit Lifetime Platinum status early next year, I can’t imagine keeping this card beyond that.
Rumored introduction of Amex Marriott Bevy Business and Amex Marriott Brilliant Business
Reports about the Amex Marriott Bonvoy Bevy Business card indicate that it may have the following structure:
- 6x Marriott
- 4x Global dining, US Gas, US Shipping, US wireless
- 2x everywhere else
- Gold status
- 65K Free Night after spending $25k in a calendar year
- 20 Elite night credits
- 1 Elite night per $5K spend
- $120 transit credit
- $120 wireless credit
- Annual Fee:$350
Quick thoughts on the rumored Amex Bonvoy Bevy Business card
Like the Bevy consumer card, I think this card has limited appeal.
On the one hand, it will offer a few additional elite night credits over the base level card and $240 in credits that some will find easy to use and others will find nearly impossible to use. If you can use the credits, the extra elite nights may feel pretty cheap.
On the other hand, the annual free night certificate that can be earned with this card requires $25,000 in purchases in a calendar year. Sure, the certificate can be quite valuable and you’d earn an additional 5 elite nights with that quantity of spend. But $25K is a lot of spend to dedicate to a Marriott card unless you really need the elite nights or you know you’ll get great value out of the certificate.
Rumored Amex Bonvoy Brilliant Business card
Finally, Doctor of Credit reports on the following rumored structure for the Amex Bonvoy Brilliant Business card:
- 6x Marriott
- 3x Global dining, US gas station, US shipping, transit
- 2x everywhere else
- Platinum Status
- 85K Free Night Award on card anniversary
- 25 Elite night credits
- 1 Elite night per $5K spend
- $160 Marriott property credit per year ($80 twice a year)
- Choice Award unchanged
- $120 transit credit ($10 per month)
- $120 wireless credit ($10 per month)
- Priority Pass Select
- Global Entry / TSA Precheck credit
- Annual Fee:$695
Quick thoughts on the rumored Amex Bonvoy Brilliant Business card
There is no doubt in my mind that some people will rejoice at the thought of an Amex Bonvoy Brilliant Business card. I think that enthusiasm will mostly come from the crowd that is already earning a few 85K Marriott free night certificates per year (perhaps from Amex Bonvoy Brilliand consumer cards and/or Chase Ritz-Calrton Visa cards). An additional 85K free night certificate probably feels more valuable and useful if you will have a few of them each year.
Additionally, some may be happy by the prospect of earning 50 elite nights per year without stepping into a Marriott property. Since you can get elite nights from up to 1 Marriott consumer card and up to 1 Marriott business card, it should theoretically be possible to get both the Amex Bonvoy Brilliant consumer card (which comes with 25 elitenight credits per year) and the Amex Bonvoy Brilliant business card and end up with 50 elite nights at the start of each year. While either Brilliant card already comes with Platinum status, having both should unlock the 50-night choice benefits, including the option to choose 5 nightly upgrade awards. The utility of those upgrade awards obviously varies, but it chould be useful to be able to start with access to those awards.
All that said, I think the $695 price tag will chase away many folks. I think it would be hard to imagine the Amex Bonvoy Brilliant cards being someone’s only ultra-premium cards given that they don’t have meaningful lounge access (Priority Pass is nice, but it is of limited use within the US, particularly as compared to cards offering access to the many bank-specific lounges that exist today). And the prospect of carrying both Brillaint cards and also an Amex Platinum or Capital One Venture X Credit Card or Chase Sapphire Reserve, etc, becomes awfully expensive very quickly.
I still think there will be an audience for the Brilliant Business card, but it will be hard to justify for those who aren’t chasing as many elite nights as possible.
Bottom line
Rumors indicate that Amex may retool its collection of Marriott business cards to more closely mirror the consumer side. I’d be pretty disappointed to see the annual 35K free night certificate go on the Amex Bonvoy Business card, but on the other hand I’m not terribly surprised. At the launch event for the revamped Amex Hilton Business credit card, I asked about the elimination of that card’s path to a free night certificate through spend. Representatives had indicated that they found that business owners didn’t necessarily value the free night certificate as much as the opportunity to earn more points from spend. I wouldn’t be surprised if some business owners simply don’t travel every year and have indicated that an annual free night isn’t important to them. As a credit card collector, IÂ do want the trade for the free night, but apparently Amex thinks that their core customers may not. That said, the Bevy and Brilliant cards are almost clones of the consumer versions. I guess those will appeal to folks who already like the consumer versions of those cards, but I can’t imagine either being a huge hit on its own.
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Current 125k SUB is pretty good for the card. Now I’m wondering if they boost the SUB after the rumored change.
If the Brilliant Business is available to Ritz card holders that could be interesting
They’re eligible for the current business Amex, so you’re probably right about being eligible for Brilliant Business.
I think holding both Brilliant is not so bad. By adding this card, my valuation is:
$695 fee
-$120 wireless credit, value at $114 (95%)
-$120 transit credit, value at $108 (90%)
-$160 hotel credits, value at $136 (85%). Buy gift cards as a last resort
Effective fee is $337, plus time spent using credits
The 85k FNA is worth over $337 even if you don’t choose a top luxury property.
So it’s worth it if you stay at Marriott every year, and only borderline worth it if you have trouble using FNAs.
The remaining benefits mostly overlap other cards, but you get the ability to earn elite nights with spending, the 50-night annual choice award mentioned above, and annual elite nights toward lifetime status.
If they drop the FNC, I’d only keep card(s) open to help me hit lifetime gold/plat. Otherwise just chase SUBs.
I’m mostly outside the US, so steer away from cards with US specific coupons, like the uber credits, wireless credits etc. The Brilliant Biz would be a step down from Brilliant Consumer card for me unless the transit and wireless credits are for global, not just US, spend. For the consumer card, the $300 global dining is basically cash to me, effectively making the 85k FNC a $350 cost to me. For a Biz at $695, I’d likely only be able to use the $160 Marriott credits, making it a $535 cost for an 85k FNC.
If this is true I might switch to the Bonvoy biz, but only if I’m caring more about ENC than staying at a hotel. $110 AF after coupon book that’s natural spend for me with no hotel stay required vs $150. If the $160 credit doesn’t come with a lot of restrictions then I’ll keep the current biz as it at least would still pay the AF.
This might be a silly question, but why is Marriott/Amex/Chase so opposed to having a Marriott purchase rate of higher than 6 pts per dollar? Given the value of a marriott point, there are several cards out there that have better value to use at marriott hotels.
Because 6 Marriott points are actually 2 non-Marriott points (UR points or miles), if you consider that 3 Marriott points was the equivalent of 1 Starwood point pre-merger (1 airline mile). Most cards only give 2X (2 miles) bonus points for dining, travel, hotel, and other categories.
because Marriott simply does not care about their loyalty program. They are much more concerned about keeping their hotel owners happy and within the Marriott brand, both so they can keep their monopoly on hotels in a lot of regions, and so that they can keep collecting the franchise fees and management contract fees which are the bulk of its revenue.
Marriott has no incentive to offer more points and thus more award nights, which hotel owners really don’t like. An individual hotel get much more money from selling a room than giving it away for free, and so hotel owners will always discourage the award program they are a part of from giving away more points.
There aren’t great earning rates on any hotel cards save Hilton, and that’s only because Hilton points are nearly worthless for just about anything but the highest-end properties.
Hotel programs are different than airlines. An airline like Delta owns its own assets (the planes, clubs, ect.), and so they need a lot of upfront, constant capital to maintain those assets and buy new ones, which is why it sells a lot of points to AmEx. They are basically selling flights in advance at a slight discount through selling their reward points to banks to get upfront capital that they might not have to pay back until much later. You notice that discount airlines that have smaller planes and no lounges don’t really have strong rewards programs, because they have lower overhead. It takes a lot of money to keep those lounges and big planes going.
Marriott owns hardly any of their own hotels. They are essentially a management company and a booking portal, not a hotel ownership company, so they don’t have the need to constantly sell points to maintain a large collection of assets through a steady stream of capital.
As a cardholder of this card for some years if the FNC goes then there’s no reason to keep the card. Doesn’t Amex realize that they’d be Bonvoying themselves here?
Do the higher end versions of the card have the 10% discount?
I guess if you’re expensing your business card fees that’s the only appeal of the other ones.
Suppose there is a JW at 110,000 points per night, a 10% discount will put it at 99,000 points, wouldn’t that put it within reach of an 85K FNC?
I could see them doing it in the form of a rebate like the Chase IHG Select card… in an attempt not to make those FNCs easier to use
The survey says discount not rebate, that’s why I am hopeful. Of course, the origin of Bonvoy can always bonvoy…
If they drop the 35k cert, I drop the card. They’re making it very simple for me
I know lots of people who travel for business and they stay in lower end Marriot properties (they are being reimbursed, but they are at the level where a 35k FNC would mostly be applicable). So when they finally get a non-work trip, its family travel and they want to stay at a nicer property. If they’ve stayed at a Fairfield Inn 40 nights in a year, they don’t want to go on vacation and stay in one with the family.
Many of Fairfield Inn / Courtyard properties in the US are more than 50k per night, so not bookable by the FNC. And by “nicer property”, these people only want to go to Hawaii, where the 35k FNC doesn’t really work because everything is more than 50k per night.
The FNCs are only valuable if you travel internationally.
For two years in a row, I have used 35K FNC at Hotel Vin, Autograph Collection at Grapevine TX, which can be a nice stay for DFW flights. The point price I got is 29K and 35K, so no need to top-up; cash price is $400+.
There can be outliers in Bonvoyland.
I’m grateful they’ve made the choice to cancel my Bonvoy Biz at renewal easy.
The matrix of what cards you can get based on what you have will be even more confusing. Hopefully, existing business card holders could freely move to another business card regardless of any other Chase/Amex consumer cards.
A 65K cert, it is getting more ridiculous the different levels of certificates. Maybe the Titanium 40K can get bumped up and encourage the Titanium status run.
and spending 25K to get the 65K cert……..
If it is just on-brand spend at least you are at Ambassador for spend.
Imagine someone with Lifetime Platinum. There’s no real reason to engage unless annual Titanium is valuable to a person (such as Greg).
With the potential of 50 ENCs as a starting point plus 1 ENC / $5k of spending plus actual stays, Titanium is not so hard. Marriott has given someone a reason to stay engaged. Smart.
This could be a big positive for those who can make the economics work.
It would be even more interesting if they added the 1 ENC / $5k of spending on the consumer cards as well.
Will chase ever introduce a Marriott business card?
Reintroduce
Reintroduce, but I think banned by the Marriott-Chase-Amex agreement. Amex got business cards and premium consumer, while Chase got general consumer. The RC and Marriott Business Visa cards were closed to new applicants (but still exist). Unfortunately you cannot product change to the Chase Marriott Business Visa.