In April, I posted “Why Chase cancels accounts (and how to protect yourself).” In that post I warned people about dangers in maximizing credit card perks (like the Ink Bold’s 5X office supply category). Specifically, I wrote:
Use tricks that maximize credit card perks in moderation. For example, buying Visa gift cards at Staples to help meet the Ink Bold’s $5K spend requirement (for the signup bonus) should be fine if you spread out the purchases over several months. If you suddenly start spending $10K per month at Staples, though, I expect you’ll get noticed (in a bad way).
Since writing that post, the Ink Bold’s minimum spend requirements have doubled to $10K in three months, and I posted a better way to leverage the Ink cards to earn 5X everywhere by buying Vanilla Reload cards at Office Depot (see “One card to rule them all”). Later, Chase unveiled a new Ink card (the Ink Plus) with the same earning structure and signup bonus as the Ink Bold. All of those happenings have combined to lead many people to spend lots of money at Office Depot stores. There’s little doubt that Chase is well aware of this phenomenon, and they’re probably not happy since a 5X payout is far more than they earn from merchant transaction fees.
Account closures
In my post about why Chase cancels accounts, I wrote about people who took extreme advantage of Chase’s AARP 5% cash back, and others who took advantage of Chase Freedom’s 10 points per transaction (when combined with a checking account). Chase shut down those accounts without warning and with no explanation. At that time, I had not yet heard of anyone getting shut down for overuse of the Chase Ink 5X categories.
After I wrote “One card to rule them all,” some people asserted that they or a friend had been shut down. Often, though, comments like these come from people who intentionally want to scare others away. They want the deal to last longer for themselves and hope that scaring people away will help. I didn’t give much credence to those comments at the time, but I saw them as a fair warning nevertheless.
More recently, though, I’ve received a couple of emails about account closures that seem legitimate. One person admits that he not only bought lots of Vanilla Reload cards at Office Depot, but also did many other things to “manufacture spend”. In his case, Chase called to question him about his account activity, but when he failed to adequately explain his purchases, they shut down his accounts. If history is a guide, he should eventually get paid 1 cent per point for his point balance, but it may take a while. I have much less information about the second person who was shut down. Apparently he tried to log in one day, but couldn’t. When he called Chase, one of the managers asked him a number of questions about his Office Depot purchases, so he assumes that those purchases are to blame for his shutdown.
Both of these recent stories are scary for those of us who buy gift cards and reload cards at office supply stores. Were these guys really shut down because of their Office Depot transactions? There are other possibilities. Auditors may have identified them as bad credit risks. Or, their overall spending behavior may have triggered alarms. Maybe they regularly spent more than expected. For example, they may have been spending more on their Ink cards than what they reported their business income to be on their credit application. There are many possibilities, but unfortunately we’re unlikely to ever know the truth for certain.
So, what’s safe?
People ask me this all the time. Can they safely buy $1000 worth of Vanilla Reload cards per month? $2,000? $3,000? $4,000?
Sadly, I simply don’t know. I expect that the answer varies depending on your circumstances. If you are a big spender with a thriving business and a long history of excellent credit scores, then I’m sure you can get away with much more than someone with otherwise low spending patterns, small reported business revenue, and a short credit history.
My advice is to examine your own situation as if you were a Chase auditor. Do your spending patterns look suspicious? Are you a bad credit risk? Are you an unprofitable Chase customer? If you answer yes to these questions, then reduce your office supply purchases accordingly. Also consider your own risk tolerance. If you find yourself stressed out over whether or not Chase will shut you down, it’s probably not worth playing this game.
Protecting yourself
Some people proactively cash out their points or transfer them to their favorite loyalty program (United, for example). The hope is that if Chase cancels their accounts they will at least still have profited from the points earned. It seems unlikely that Chase will try to claw back points already redeemed.
Personally, I highly value the ability to move Ultimate Rewards points to various loyalty programs as needed. I don’t know right now whether I’ll want to move my points to United or Hyatt, for example. I also don’t know who’s account I’ll want to move the points to. It’s great that Chase allows you to move points to other people’s accounts, and I highly value that option.
Another possible way to protect yourself is to move keep points as Ultimate Rewards points, but transfer them to a friend or relative (assuming the friend or relative is less likely to get shut down). The risk with this approach is the possibility that this action will cause your friend or relative to get shut down as well. I’m not saying that’s a likely outcome, just that it’s possible.
For ongoing discussions about this topic as a whole, see this FlyerTalk thread.
My plan
For now, I’ll scale back my Office Depot purchases a little bit, and increase my use of Chase cards for non bonus spend. No, the sky isn’t falling: I’m still not convinced that Chase is gunning for people who buy gift cards and reloadables at Office Depot, but it makes sense to be cautious.
Reader experiences
Has Chase called you to ask you to explain your office supply purchases? Have you or someone you know had your accounts shut down? Please comment below.
Do not ask how much vanilla card you can purchase.
Let’s say someone said $1,000 per month,
Then Chase can close account at $999 (extreme case, of course)
My point is that Chase is watching this website and posts all the time.
[…] Please see “Why Chase cancels accounts (and how to protect yourself)” and “Inking 5X: What’s safe?“ Secondly, the $50K (or $25K) clock is not based on the calendar […]
@Ben – which NS variety do you use? I have been seasoning a paypal prepaid to test car payment/mortgage soon.
The September-October 2012 posts at http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1072125/?start=4040 seem to indicate that many of the heavy users of the Chase AARP credit card’s uncapped 5% 6 month rebate who had their credit cards cancelled by Chase and their rewards confiscated eventually got checks for their rewards, and some have successfully applied for new credit cards with Chase after only a few months.
I suspect that these actions may be the result of former card holders filing complaints with regulatory agencies. If so, I suspect that the results may depend on the former card holders’ state of residence.
I have been abusing the 5X significantly,however, I am still alive. Is it because I have a lot of money in my savings and checking accounts I have with them, and two direct deposits?
Ben — I was paying nothing but small bills as well with NS and got shut down. Didn’t thrown them a bone, but I’m smarter with my current prepaid cards and do put regular spend on there. The ones I have now also have much lower fees so I have an incentive.
@Jack. I do rent payment thru MO, utilities and credit card payments thru ACH. All via NS. Plus I throw them a bone every month (typically $500 in CC transactions).
Between wife and me (separate acts), we get to turn-over $4k/mo. Almost all of which would otherwise not be available as a credit card transaction. Being able to redirect payments (NOT spending!!!) to the tune of $48k/a towards minimum spend, THAT’S WHAT I CALL A WIN!
Since Chase sets limits on how many bonus points one can get in the 5x category, and the fact that the ink bold card has a membership fee, one would think that they let people max out on those points. They secretly hope that the 5x bonus entices people to pay the membership fee but end up using the card for all purchases, including the 1x purchases. But that’s not what they advertise.
What’s wrong with only using the card for 5x purchases? If they call, tell them that you like to use the card at office depot because it pays 5x, but that there are better offers for other categories. They surely know that people have more than one credit card. Do the terms state that one can’t use the card to buy gift cards?
Bottom line: If spending more than 25k a year in the 5x category is an issue, then what’s the point of having the ink bold? Might as well switch to the free ink card that offers 5x up to 25k. If they’ll still shut people down for spending 25k at 5x and people have to start worrying about their spending habits, then what good is the offer? Why disclose a limit in the terms of service that they won’t allow you to reach (or only under the assumption that not all purchases are 5x)? Put it in the TOS that, for example, in order to get the 5x points, you need spend at least the same amount in non 5x categories. Anything else is false advertising.
Also found it very interesting when I was told the interchange rate is higher for reward cards vs non rewards cards. The merchant pays a few basis points more for us to earn airline miles, etc. The part I’ve always wanted to know and haven’t been able to find someone to share with me is how is the interchange fee spilt up. The processing fee goes to the processor a merchant uses, but how much of the interchange rate goes to the issuing bank (chase, citi, etc) and how much goes to the card type (visa, mc).
I’ve always been told that data is confidential.
@Ben – It’s what we are all trying to figure out here. How do you determine what is a safe amount? You post you use your Netspend card for rent and utilities, anything else? Do you ever do any ATM withdrawals or just pay bills?
Interchange rates are set rates and do vary by industry and payment type. for example grocery pays less than retail. Gas stations that have you enter your zip code pay less than those that do not. Online transactions cost less when you ask for cvv. All based on fraud. Fraud is less at grocery than retail, asking for zip proves the card is yours. Having cvv means card was present at time of transaction.
In addition to interchange a merchant pays a processing fee. This is set amount vs rate. This fee is negotiable with the payment processor. Volume would get discounts on this fee but not interchange.
I think most problems that ppl experience w/ Chase, CC, Amex (and even Netspend) in regards to account closings is mediated by unadulterated (American-style) GREED!
No sense by most churners, whatsoever, about what it takes to develop a sustainable (!), mutual beneficial relationship. For example, I am still going strong on Netspend. Being able to charge rent, utilities, etc. for $1 (vs. 3.5% thru other venues).
I’ll still be reaping benefits when all the $8k/mo NS wonders (or INK Bold wonders), will long have been shut out.
@ Frequent Churner,
This is just a hypothesis. I don’t know for sure.
It just seems illogical that Visa would charge 2.5%+ of a $500 transaction for a Visa prepaid card. They get their cut when you actually spend the Visa prepaid card.
This is why they don’t let you use them as debit cards to get cash – as they don’t get a cut of the spend then.
Everything is contractual – so Visa / MC could very easily have specific rate for specific categories of products – just like when you use a debit card at the store and get cash back – the cash back component does not generate commission the same way. This can only happen if they have a way to categorize spend.
That’s odd, I thought merchants can’t pay less based on what they sell, except for PIN Debits. I found a Visa merchant fee schedule online and it doesn’t show that fees are different based on type of product purchased. http://tinyurl.com/8kl8jx9
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