Those who have long manufactured spend by using gift cards to purchase money orders at Walmart will now find themselves running into a new roadblock: cashiers are now reportedly being prompted by the register to ask for ID for any money order transactions in excess of $1K (seems to be nationwide) and inputting it into a Walmart database. Furthermore, registers are hard-coded not to allow a customer to purchase more than $8,000 in money orders per 24 hours. While these limits won’t be too restrictive for those simply looking to use this technique to help meet minimum spend now and then, they are a sure blow to those manufacturing spend in volume.
It was reported a few weeks ago by Million Mile Guy that memos had gone out to stores about new money order limits set to take effect on October 16, 2018. However, the 16th came and went without change at many stores — including the one that I frequent most — and thus it seemed business as usual for most.
However, reports have come in both at Million Mile Guy (see his post for screen shots of the memos) and via comments at Doctor of Credit advising of the new limits being in effect at stores in various states around the country as of yesterday, November 1, 2018. This time, it looks like the limits are for real and very likely nationwide (or will be very shortly). The new money order limits at Walmart are as follows:
- If a customer buys money orders in excess of $1K, the computer will automatically prompt the cashier to enter the customer’s name and driver’s license number into Walmart’s “Know Your Customer” database (previously this happened at $3K)
- That information in the system hard codes the computer not to allow said customer to purchase more than $8,000 in money orders “in a single day”, which is being defined as a 24-hour period in practice (was previously $10K per calendar day, though this varied by store).
- The “Know Your Customer” database entry is different from a Suspicious Activity Report, which is collected when a cashier has reason to believe you are up to no good.
- The key difference between the Know Your Customer entry and the Suspicious Activity Report is that the SAR requests your social security number and is more likely to be shared with authorities for purposes of investigating money laundering, etc.
Additionally, bill pay transactions will now be limited to a rolling $8,000 per 30 days.
A few of my thoughts on this:
- Not a big deal for casual MSers. If you’re just doing a thousand here or there to meet minimum spend, this is unlikely to make much a difference in your life. This might even make it easier as you won’t be tempted to do $2K in 4 swipes, which likely attracts more skepticism than $1K in 2 swipes.
- Know Your Customer database may be a concern for some and no big deal for others. I’m not excited about the idea of supplying my driver’s license number to Walmart, so I’ll probably look to keep it under $1K.
Reports we’ve received indicate that if you buy a MO for $999.12 and the MO fee of $0.88 brings you up to $1K, you’ll have to enter your ID as your transaction will be for $1,000 total. Update: I’ve personally confirmed that an MO + transaction fee that comes to a total of $1K does not trigger the need for ID. Of course, if you regularly buy MOs that fly just under the radar, I’d wonder if an ambitious cashier might want to file a suspicious activity report. It’s sort of a Catch-22 that will likely depend on the relationships you build/have built at your local store(s). - This will make liquidation slow for those doing volume. Since I don’t live particularly close to any stores, I usually spend one day in a larger area once or twice a month making the rounds at a number of stores and can liquidate the volume I need to in one day. Now it will take me twice as long. That’s unfortunate as I often advise people not to get stuck with more in gift cards than you could find a use for if your preferred liquidation methods dried up. To follow my own advice, I would have to reduce my purchasing…which in turn reduces my rewards….or find alternative means of manufactured spend. Luckily . .
- We maintain a Complete Guide to Manufactured spending. It lists many other ways to earn points beyond the gift card / money order route. Surely there are additional niche methods that pop up for those keeping their eyes open and ears to the ground. This is a definite speed limit, but hardly the end to MS.
Bottom line
Those who only MS a thousand bucks here or there will likely not be affected by this policy change, whereas the new Walmart Money Order limits are surely a pain for those manufacturing spend in volume as this makes the already-tedious process of liquidation even slower. It also adds an element of hassle for the cashier, which isn’t desirable when stores are busy and lines are long. Unfortunately, this doesn’t look to be store-by-store but rather hard-coded into the system. I do not think this means stores which were previously more restrictive (e.g. did not allow money order purchases with gift cards) will change their tune. In other words, if your store(s) did not allow you to buy MOs before, this memo likely makes no difference for you. But for those with stores that were previously friendly about doing larger volume, this will add a big hurdle to volume liquidation and likely push them to look elsewhere for new methods.
I just got blocked from using VGC to buy a Money order on Friday. Any news on if things have changed?
At $3,000 the SSN and occupation are required by the BSA of the Patriot Act. This is not a suspicious activity report. You should correct your article as it’s very misleading.
I think it’s disgusting how Wal- Mart parking lots are crammed with cars every day. No hours cut or limits on customers. Too bad they want money more than honoring the rulings against the VIRUS Too bad stupid people are the ones cramming the stores!!! Not just in my town but all over. SHAME
Will the Pay Pal business debit card work with buying money orders at Walmart, to get the one percent back on the card ?
I went to Walmart to get eight different money orders to pay my bills for the month and the average out to about $1,300 and I didn’t have my ID on me and I’m like well she said with you getting $1,000 money order we need your ID I said I’m not getting $1,000 money order I’m getting eight different in order to pay my bills so then she just kept going on I said I’m not even using my debit card I’m paying you in cash so I can send off my bills it was just a big mess so I told her I said don’t even worry about it I end up going to Kroger getting all my money orders without even having to worry about showing ID I was just trying to pay my bills
I just went to Walmart to do Walmart to Walmart to send money to my kids who are all in college but at different locations. I was told I couldn’t do but one Walmart to Walmart in one day. I know I have done different transfer in a single trip so what is this a new rule or something or is casher being a [edited]
[…] year, Walmart instituted new requirements and restrictions on money order purchases (See: Walmart’s new Money Order limits: new speed limit enforced [likely nationwide]). Specifically, Walmart’s system is now hard-coded to require an ID entry if you purchase […]
Can a money order be purchased with a gift card?
Any data points for purchase MO with Fixed $200 Visa GC? Does it mean max of $800 MO + fee per transaction since it only allows 4 swipes? Thx.
Correct.
[…] The MS beatings continue: Walmart’s new Money Order limits: new speed limit enforced [likely nationwide]. […]
Interesting
“The key difference between the Know Your Customer entry and the Suspicious Activity Report is that the SAR requests your social security number and is more likely to be shared with authorities for purposes of investigating money laundering, etc.”
This is not true. The key difference between the KYC reporting and SAR reporting is that except for a very select few individuals (FinCEN and law enforcement namely), the customer is absolutely NOT supposed to know a whether a SAR was or was not filed. The employee filing the SAR isn’t going to ask for the customer’s details to tip them off to the filing of a SAR. It is not required that all of the information on a SAR be filled out in full. Filing a SAR is actually a pretty big deal as they are handled on an individual basis; it’s not like Walmart would file 5,000 SARs daily and expect anything to be done with them.
It is clear that the real world limit is 2K a day. I know I’m limited to 4 debit cards in a 24 hour period. If it were $8K a day I’d have no problem with it. What am I supposed to do, whip out $6k in cash to complete the $8K?I have heard of Simon Malls issuing $1K Gift Cards, but only to business organizations.
I’m not a heavy MS’er so this won’t affect me for the most part, but I have had problems in the LA area (and once in Reno and NorCal each when traveling) using VGCs. Several times recently I’ve been told preemptively or in the midst of transactions that they are not allowed, and one time recently a CSR said she’d allow me to do it “this time,” but not in the future. Has VGC use been blessed system-wide under the new rules or will it continue to be YMMV? Thanks in advance.
Gift card use will never be blessed. Best practice is not to advertise that you’re paying with a gift card. I just say that I’d like to split tender over a couple of debit cards with $500 on the first card. I swipe and then put the back side of the card face up in my hand so they see my signature on the back of it if they’re looking to take a peek and most of the time nobody questions from there.
Count yourself lucky to not be given the 5th degree when swiping. All our local CSRs watch carefully – some even put the POS terminal on top of the counter so as to make it obvious what sort of card you’re using.
why all the worry about the ID? I cashed in $2k last night and had no problem giving her my DL. What are they going to do? It’s not like I’m doing something illegal. What are the possible outcomes?
As you said, it’s not illegal, so no worry there. The bigger issues are just another database with your personal info (and who knows who they share it with?) and the potential hassle of an investigation into your finances. Even if you’re not doing anything illegal, that might be a hassle some people don’t want.
100% correct. Bring them on if they want to investigate. My theory is it is the cash back crowd who wants to avoid this as it is then income……
As I understand it, cash back is considered a “rebate” by the IRS, not income, and is therefore not taxable.
It’s not giving the ID that’s the problem, it’s the interminably long time it takes some cashiers to type it all in (you quickly realize how many WM cashiers are in dire need of corrective lenses as they squint at the DLs)
It’s been a while since I did MS on a regular basis…like a few years. Life got in the way and when the easier ways dried up, felt less of a need. Anyway am I understanding this correctly that you can use VGCs with a PIN at Walmart to buy MOs? They don’t check your “debit card” to see your name?
Totally depends on your Walmart and sometimes your cashier. If someone asks to see the card, I show it. I’ve had situations where they didn’t care it was a gift card and others where they wouldn’t allow me – if they say no, I gauge whether they’re weak or firm and I’ve convinced some cashiers to “just let me try” and had others I knew weren’t going to budge so I said thanks and left. Just ran into a grocery store a week or two ago where a cashier checked the cards and told me they can’t sell MOs if you pay with a GC anymore, new store policy. I’ve been in 3 times since with different cashiers and had no problem at all.
Most savvy WMs always check to see if your name is on the card. You might find an occasional new-hire who doesn’t know to look, but they eventually they learn to check. The old crones who’ve been at the Money Center desks for eons are the worst.