Updated new cardmember bonus offers are out today on the newly-refreshed Chase Sapphire Reserve card (consumer version) and the Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business. While both cards feature big introductory offers, you’ll want to pay close attention to the details to decide whether these make sense for you. You’ll also want to consult the new eligibility rules as we have seen some important changes on that front.
The Offers, Key Card Details, and Quick Thoughts
Chase Sapphire Reserve Card
| Card Offer and Details |
|---|
 ⓘ $1585 1st Yr Value Estimate$300 travel credit valued at $285, $300 StubHub credit ($150 Jan-Jun and again Jul-Dec) valued at $75, $500 Chase The Edit credit ($250 Jan-Jun and again Jul-Dec) valued at $125, $300 Chase Dining credit for dining at Sapphire Reserve Tables restaurants ($150 Jan-Jun and again Jul-Dec) valued at $75, $500 Chase Travel credit valued at $400 Click to learn about first year value estimates 100K Points + $500 Chase Travel℠ promo credit ⓘAffiliateThis is an affiliate offer. Frequent Miler may earn a commission if you are approved for this offer 100K + promo credit good for up to $500 towards a single Chase Travel℠ booking after $5K spend in 3 months. $795 Annual Fee Note that promotional travel credit is one-time use and if it is applied to a transaction of less than $500, the remaining value will be forfeited. FM Mini Review: Good all-around card for frequent traveler. Best when paired with no annual fee Chase Freedom Flex, Freedom Unlimited & Chase Ink Cash cards. Click here for our complete card review Earning rate: 8X Chase Travel℠ ✦ 4X flights and hotels booked direct ✦ 3X Dining ✦ 5X Lyft (through September 2027) Card Info: Visa Infinite issued by Chase. This card has no foreign currency conversion fees. Big spend bonus: After spending $75,000 each calendar year, get the following benefits: IHG One Rewards Diamond Elite Status ✦ Southwest Airlines A-List Status ✦ $500 Southwest Airlines credit when booked through Chase Travel ✦ $250 credit to The Shops at Chase Noteworthy perks: $300 Annual Travel Credit ✦ Transfer points to airline & hotel partners ✦ Up to $500 The Edit credit annually ($250 January to June and again July to December) ✦ Up to $300 Dining credit through Sapphire Reserve Exclusive Tables ($150 January to June and again July to December) ✦ Complimentary AppleTV+ and Apple Music through 6/22/27 ✦ Up to $300 in StubHub credits ($150 January to June and again July to December) ✦ Points worth up to 2 cents each towards qulalified bookings through Chase Travel ✦ Transfer points to airline & hotel partners ✦ Primary auto rental coverage ✦ Priority Pass Select lounge access ✦ Access Sapphire Lounges for yourself and 2 guests for free ✦ Access select Air Canada Maple Leaf lounges when flying Star Alliance ✦ Up to $120 Global Entry or TSA PreCheck® or NEXUS Application Fee Statement Credit ✦ Free DoorDash DashPass through 2027 ✦ Two promos of $10 off each month on non-restaurant orders from DoorDash ✦ $5 off restaurant order each month from DoorDash ✦ $10 monthly Lyft creditPrimary auto rental coverage ✦ Priority Pass Select lounge access ✦ Access Sapphire Lounges for yourself and 2 guests for free ✦ Access select Air Canada Maple Leaf lounges when flying Star Alliance ✦ Up to $120 Global Entry or TSA PreCheck® or NEXUS Application Fee Statement Credit ✦ Free DoorDash DashPass through 2027 ✦ Two promos of $10 off each month on non-restaurant orders from DoorDash ✦ $5 off restaurant order each month from DoorDash ✦ $10 monthly Lyft credit See also: Chase Ultimate Rewards Complete Guide |
Quick Thoughts
The new bonus offer on this card could be very valuable, though the devil is in the details.
It is important to understand that the Chase Travel Credit is part of the welcome offer, so you’ll need to meet the minimum spending requirement in order to unlock both the points portion of the bonus offer and the Chase Travel credit — you won’t be eligible to use that promo credit until you’ve made $5,000 in purchases within the first 3 months of approval.
Further, you need to be careful about how you use that promo credit: it is a single-use promo credit. If you use it on a travel booking that costs less than $500, you forfeit the additional value. If you use it on a booking that is later cancelled in part by a travel provider, you can receive a partial refund of the credit, but be careful not to use your credit toward a trip costing less than the value of the credit.
If you are able to make good use of that travel credit and the card’s more broadly applicable annual $300 travel credit that automatically credits qualifying paid travel (which does not need to be booked through Chase Travel), the combination would go a long way toward offsetting the card’s newly-increased $795 annual fee. Given the plethora of other coupon credits that now come with the card for new cardholders, it would not be difficult to come out well ahead of the annual fee for the first year between those credits and the introductory bonus offer.
All that said, I’m surprised that the welcome offer does not include more points. Given that we recently saw a bonus offer of 100,000 points on the Sapphire Preferred card (now expired), this Sapphire Reserve offer feels weak to me given that the card costs $700 more per year than the Sapphire Preferred.
Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business
| Card Offer and Details |
|---|
 ⓘ $2185 1st Yr Value Estimate$300 travel credit valued at $285, $500 Chase The Edit credit ($250 Jan-Jun and again Jul-Dec) valued at $125, $100 GiftCards.com credit ($50 Jan-Jun and again Jul-Dec for cards purchased from https://reservebusiness.giftcards.com/) valued at $50 Click to learn about first year value estimates 200K points ⓘAffiliateThis is an affiliate offer. Frequent Miler may earn a commission if you are approved for this offer 200K points after $30K spend in first 6 months.$795 Annual Fee FM Mini Review: Could be very appealing for a business that books a lot of travel, as it earns 8x through Chase Travel or 4x when booking direct through airline and hotels. It has decent perks, best-in-class travel protections, and earns valuable Chase Ultimate Rewards points. Best when paired with no annual fee Chase Freedom Flex, Freedom Unlimited & Chase Ink Cash cards Earning rate: 8X Chase Travel℠ ✦ 4X flights and hotels booked direct ✦ 3X social media and search engine advertising ✦ 5X Lyft (through September 2027) Card Info: Visa Infinite issued by Chase. This card has no foreign currency conversion fees. Big spend bonus: After spending $120,000 each calendar year, get the following benefits: IHG One Rewards Diamond Elite Status ✦ Southwest Airlines A-List Status ✦ $500 Southwest Airlines credit when booked through Chase Travel ✦ $500 credit to The Shops at Chase Noteworthy perks: $300 Annual Travel Credit ✦ Up to $500 The Edit credit ($250 January to June and again July to December) ✦ Up to $400 ZipRecruiter credit ($200 January to June and again July to December) ✦ $200 Google Workspace credit ✦ $100 Giftcards.com ($50 January to June and again July to December) ✦ Points worth 2 cents each towards qulalified bookings through Chase Travel(SM) ✦ Transfer points to airline & hotel partners ✦ Primary auto rental coverage ✦ Priority Pass Select lounge access ✦ Access Sapphire Lounges for yourself and 2 guests for free ✦ Access select Air Canada Maple Leaf lounges when flying Star Alliance ✦ Up to $120 Global Entry or TSA PreCheck® or NEXUS Application Fee Statement Credit ✦ Free DoorDash DashPass through 2027 ✦ Two promos of $10 off each month on non-restaurant orders from DoorDash ✦ $5 off restaurant order each month from DoorDash ✦ $10 monthly Lyft credit See also: Chase Ultimate Rewards Complete Guide |
Quick Thoughts
The new welcome offer on the business version of the Sapphire Reserve card is quite easy to understand. I am glad to see a large number of bonus points on offer here, though the $30,000 minimum spending requirement will be a hurdle to some small businesses. However, for those businesses that would not struggle to meet the spending requirement, this card could provide an opportunity to pick up a nice chunk of points in one shot.
That said, the offer isn’t necessarily show-stopping. Chase offers some business cards with no annual fee that feature excellent welcome offers. While those no-fee cards are missing many of the features of the Sapphire Reserve for Business card, you’ll have to run the numbers to decide whether the Sapphire Reserve for Business card’s features add up to enough value to justify the $795 annual fee. I previously noted that I couldn’t really imagine who this card is designed to serve and I still struggle with that.
That said, I imagine that there must be some business owners who can take advantage of the right perks to make the Sapphire Reserve for Business card a keeper. And while $30,000 worth of spend could alternatively be put toward a couple of new card welcome offers that may meet or exceed the return on spend here, some will surely appreciate the opportunity to add to an existing Ultimate Rewards fortune and pick up a ton of valuable points with a single new card, particularly those for whom the perks are meaningful.
On a positive note, the Sapphire Reserve card application terms do not include any restrictions regarding those who have previously or who currently hold consumer versions of the Sapphire Reserve card. In other words, you can apply for the Sapphire Reserve for Business card even if you currently have a consumer Sapphire card.
New Sapphire Reserve Eligibility Rules
Speaking of Sapphire cards, new eligibility rules are said to be launching today for the Sapphire Reserve card and its introductory bonus. In the terms on the application page for the consumer version of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, I see the following terminology:
This credit card is unavailable to you if you currently have one open. The new cardmember bonus may not be available to you if you currently have any other personal Sapphire cards open, previously held this card or received a new cardmember bonus for this card. We may also consider the number of cards you have opened and closed, as well as other factors in determining your bonus eligibility.
Bonus terms here closely mirror Amex terms by indicating that the new cardmember bonus “may not be available to you” if you currently have other personal Sapphire cards open or you have ever previously had the Sapphire Reserve or received a new cardmember bonus for it. In other words, even cardholders who got the Sapphire Reserve card when it launched in 2016 may not be eligible for the welcome offer now. On the other hand, while terms explicitly indicate that the card is not available to you if you currently have a Sapphire Reserve card, the offer terms indicate that those who have had the card before may not be eligible rather than are not eligible. Therefore, it certainly sounds as though some customers who had the card before may be eligible to get the card again. Similar to the Amex pop-up, it seems that Chase will determine whether or not you are eligible for a new cardmember bonus based on their own internal algorithm.
That said, there are some bright spots in those terms to note:
- While you may not be eligible if you currently have other personal Sapphire cards open, terms leave open the possibility that current Sapphire Preferred cardholders may be able to get the Sapphire Reserve also. However, early reports indicate that most people who currently have a Sapphire Preferred card are getting a pop-up indicating that they are not eligible for the bonus. That pop-up says that those who currently have the Sapphire Preferred card are ineligible. This stands in contrast to the terms on the offer landing page. We don’t yet know what the long-term intention is here.
- The business version of the card does not indicate any Sapphire-related restrictions, so it looks like it should be possible to get both the consumer Sapphire Reserve and the Sapphire Reserve for Business for folks who qualify.
- Chase will now provide a pop-up notice when you click to submit a Sapphire application indicating whether you are eligible for the bonus before you finalize the application. While that stinks for those who get the pop-up, it will provide some welcome clarity before deciding whether to finalize the application.
Overall, the new eligibility rules are a bummer for those who were counting down the clock on 48 months since last bonus since some were likely waiting to become eligible to receive the bonus again. On the other hand, the new terms leave open the possibility to get both a Sapphire Preferred and a Sapphire Reserve card, which is probably good news for many.
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One way to think about this. The CSR SUB + Edit benefit = 3 long weekends at a mid/upper range hotel. Assume $550/night x 6 = $3,300. $3,300 – $500 (SUB credit) – $750 ($250 Edit credit x 3) = $2,050. $2,050 / 0.02 (2 cents/point) = 102,500 points. So pay $495 annual fee (after $300 general travel credit) and you get a mid/upper range hotel for 3 long weekends in the next three half year periods. You could probably get 5/6 of this with the Bonvoy Boundless current offer, but without the strict date requirements and for only $95. Of course, you get the other CSR coupons and benefits. But far from a great deal! It seems like there are plenty of people jumping on this deal, but I’m still stunned the SUB isn’t better (I guess the funds for the real increased SUB went to pay for all those advertisements).
P2 got a CSP in May 2024 and the SUB in June 2024. His AF recently posted again on June 1 and he PCed to CSR about 10 days ago, thinking he wouldn’t be eligible for the new SUB because of the 48 month rule (news broke the next day that this was all changing). Now I’m wondering if he can cancel the PC from CSP to CSR and, instead, PC the CSP to a Freedom? Then he could apply outright for the new CSR? He is still within 30 days of when the CSP AF posted on June 1, the prorated CSR fee has not posted at all yet, and he has otherwise never had a CSR. Is this a bad idea? Is it he likely to be denied the SUB for already having the CSR for this brief period? Is this too much “gaming” for Chase and likely to flag his account?
Anyone downgrade csp and apply for personal?
Data point – I just applied for the consumer Sapphire at 4/24, but ~47 months since earning CSP SUB. I didn’t get a pop-up, but decision is pending. I might call tomorrow to offer to move credit line, as I have several open Chase cards.
I got approved over the phone. I forgot to unfreeze my credit and applied, so I had to call them after unfreezing my credit. While on the phone, the rep automatically moved my credit, without asking which card, and approved my application.
My last CSP bonus was about 45 months ago. I think I am supposed to be off 5/24 after June, but got approved today, so I’m not sure about this one.
For some reason the 550 old one is still on referral links. But if you apply from there you might get account closure
I haven’t been able to generate a referral link. I assume you must be talking about a referral link generated before today?
I was checking monkey miles mine is same thing
Anyone have luck getting approval at LOL/24? Got denied for CSP but the business version went to pending. Thinking maybe I should call. Have a major trip coming up and the hyatt points alone would more than make first year AF worth it. The additional credits would just be icing on the cake.
What are the chances we see a substantially better SUB offer on this card in the next year? This feels like a “standard” offer to me, not an “increased” offer. The first year value on this offer is half (!!!) of the current offer on the Amex Platinum vanilla. Even Chase’s Bonvoy Boundless is currently offering better first year value (on a $95/yr card!). I just can’t believe this sad offer is it!
It’s impossible to say with certainty, but I can’t think of a time that Chase has ever done a refresh / new card launch and then increased the offer beyond the launch offer soon thereafter. In fact, after that 100K launch offer on the CSR when they launched it years ago, it was *years* until we saw it hit 100K again. So while I agree that the offer here feels weak, it feels unlikely that they’ll bigify it. Of course, if far fewer people apply than whatever they expected, who knows?
They have a full-screen pop-up on the NYTimes(.com) front page, so they’re really selling this one.
My guess is that the $500 travel credit represents the extra special new bonus that is exclusive to the launch – roughly similar to Venture X having a $200 AirBnB/VRBO credit at launch. The 100k (I’d guess maybe 80k long-term) alone might be the “regular” SUB.
For the new rules regarding redeeming UR points at 1.5x on the consumer version of the SR, would SUB UR points earned after October not fall into this category if you sign up for the business SR card today? Or do you have to hit the $30K minimum spend before the 10/26/25 deadline?
They need to be on your previously-existing (i.e. existed already prior to 6/23/25) Sapphire Reserve card before 10/26. You would need to earn the points and move them to your CSR before 10/26/25 to get the base-level 1.5c per point (which, again, only applies if your Sapphire Reserve card existed already prior to 6/23/25).
Thanks, Nick! I’m working on minimum spend for an Amex Bus Gold so I don’t think I can meet that spend before the deadline. I’m currently with the old CSR card, though.
OMAAT reports that “The welcome offer on a Chase Sapphire card is now “once in a lifetime,” so you’re not eligible for the welcome offer on any Chase Sapphire card if you currently have or have had any Chase Sapphire card (either Preferred or Reserve)”
Is that how you’re reading the eligibility rules? It says “this” card when taking about cards you’ve received the bonus on before.
I currently have the CSR, but am wondering if I cancel it, would I be eligible for the bonus on the CSP, which I’ve never had before.
That doesn’t sound correct at all because there are tons of people who have downgraded Sapphire cards in the past who are being approved for the SUB now (see comments on Doctor of Credit or the churning subreddit for data points)
As Nick pointed out, the language is “may not be eligible”. Based on current DPs, it sounds like it’s pretty much status quo from before: they’re denying anyone who currently has a CSP, and while the language gives them cover to deny anyone the bonus who has ever held any Sapphire, that doesn’t seem to be what’s happening. Whether you get the bonus if you downgrade… you “may” or “may not”.
I have updated it to say that many/most who currently have a Sapphire Preferred are getting a pop-up saying that they are ineligible. We’re trying to get clarity since the landing page says that they may not be eligible (which implies that they may), but the pop-up that many are seeing says that Sapphire Preferred cardholders are ineligible for the consumer Sapphire Reserve. Hopefully we’ll get a more thorough update at some point soon.
I did not get a popup; have CSP; app was denied and credit pulled.
However, I was able to get instant approval for CS biz
Super disappointed in the CSR sign up bonus! Amex level annual fee should equal Amex level SUB. I’m out on this deal. Hopefully the signs ups are slow and Chase increases the offer.
Just got approved for Sapphire Biz with your link! Thanks for the great work this team continues to create! Now just need to spend $30k in the next six months…. 😮 🙂
I would really really like to see you “show your work” on your valuation of cards, esp interesting new cards. That would allow people to consider their own unique valuations for Lyft, doordash, AppleTV, etc. I think your valuation includes the points and the $300+$500 credits, I can’t tell if it assigns any value to the other coupony perks.
We do! If you’re on desktop, all you need to do is mouse over the first year value estimate to see exactly where it comes from (the “i”, for “information”, is the hint that mousing over it causes a box with explanation to pop up).
We don’t assign any value to perks like Lyft, DoorDash, and AppleTV. We’re valuing StubHub, the dining credit, and The Edit at 25% face value (all on the consumer card as that’s what your comment indicates you were asking about). We value the automatic $300 credit at $285. It looks like we didn’t actually include a value for the $500 coupon that’s part of the introductory offer, which is an oversight that I’ll fix.
If you actually click on the first year value, it takes you to the full post that explains how we figure first year value in terms of the value of the points based on our Reasonable Redemption Values and the opportunity cost of spending on the card vs earning cash back, etc.
Oh cool – is that new? It’s new to me, anyway – like it a lot! Curious how you’ll value the $500 credit… $375?
Sorry one more thing – your valuation of “the Edit” credit seems… optimistic. Given the 2 nt minimum, it’s a $125/night credit on hotels that will largely be $500+ per night. A 25% off coupon to expensive hotels is worth approximately zero to me, in my pre-card calculations. Obv I’d look for ways to use it, but I would assume no use is most likely scenario.
I thought your valuation of stubhub and dining credits were spot on. They’d be easy enough to use, but they would be free stuff rather than an expense avoided. Reminds me of the old Citi Prestige… doubt they’ll stick around long.
No, that’s not new. The first year value calculations have been there since long before I worked here, and I’ve been here 8.5 years.
If you value the credit at zero, then by all means change that part of the valuation for yourself. Our first year value calculations are meant to be conservative, but they are also taken in the context of someone who might be interested in the card. For instance, if you never stay at Marriott properties, then you probably wouldn’t value a Marriott free night certificate the same way we calculated in a welcome bonus offer. There is always some amount of personal tinkering with valuations.
In terms of it being largely hotels that cost more than $500 a night and whether or not that’s applicable, that’s going to vary widely based on situation. Plenty of people would be thrilled to save $125 on a night that would have otherwise cost $500 and plenty of markets have places that cost less than that, but obviously that all may not be true for your use case. Different strokes for different folks.
And to be clear, it’s going to depend on where and when you use it and you’ll have to comparison shop to make sure you’re getting good value out of it — it’s definitely not a slam dunk. On the other hand, I suspect that you’ll be able to combine it with using points at $0.02/pt (for The Edit bookings), paying mostly with points but $250 on the card. Again, if prices are equal to what you find elsewhere, that could end up being really appealing.
As a for-instance, The Chatwal in Manhattan is 40K points through Hyatt for this Saturday night. Through The Edit, it’s ~33K points and it comes with breakfast for 2 and a $125 dining credit. I didn’t look at the rate for Sunday night, but let’s momentarily suppose it is the same (about $660). That’s about $1320 for two nights. So after the $250 coupon, you’d be paying about 1070 for two nights. Assuming you can use points at $0.02/pt for the balance, then you’re looking at about 55,350 points to cover that balance for 2 nights at a nice place in Manhattan with breakfast for 2 and a $125 credit, “saving” you 12,500 points over what you’d have paid if you paid 100% with points. Is that worth $250? Probably not. Is it worth something to you? Maybe not. Is saving 12,500 points worth $62.50 (the 25% face value calculation we’re using) to many readers who might have otherwise gladly booked two nights for ~68K points, which is already a savings of 12K over what Hyatt would charge? Yes, I think a lot of readers would find it worth at least that much.
Again, totally reasonable if that’s not you, but hopefully that paints some context.
Oh haha – joke’s on me. On the laptop I can hover over and see most of what I want to see, but I’ve normally been looking at them on my phone. Now that I know where it is, I tried to access on my phone, I still don’t see a way to get to these notes. Am I wrong? You might consider adding a link for those of us who dream-scroll through this while waiting in line somewhere.
I take your point about some people being thrilled at the coupon. But that proves too much, surely as many people will have or get Apple TV. I thought you assigned value pursuant to some other line of thinking. Two points:
We use reasonable judgment. We try not to think “What is this worth to me?” but rather, “At what price would it make sense for an average person considering this to subscribe to this benefit?”
The reason for the subscription model is because that’s essentially what you’re doing: when you pay an annual fee for a credit card, you’re pre-paying for a number of services. And just like most services offer a discount if you subscribe annually rather than monthly, you should be expecting to get some discount if you’re tying money up at the front end.
One thing we distinctly don’t do is think “In my situation, what is this worth?”. We try to be broader about it. So, for example, while the Amex Platinum card’s Uber benefits would be nearly worthless for most people where I live (since there is no Uber here), I recognize that the vast majority of readers considering applying for a travel credit card with a $700 annual fee either live in an area with Uber or travel to an area with Uber now and then, so the value to me in my personal circumstances isn’t necessarily relevant but rather most people considering the card probably do use Uber. But how much would they pay per year to get $15 per month in credits and $35 in December? Well, it would obviously have to be a big discount since even people who live in cities with Uber might not use it all the time, so paying anything close to face value wouldn’t make sense. And we discount it from there, trying to remain fairly conservative while recognizing that most travel-related credits are going to appeal at some amount to people considering travel credit cards.
On the other hand, we do not assign any value to things like Priority Pass since you may already have another card that offers that membership and even if you travel a lot, you may not travel to places with Priority Pass lounges. Some people will obviously value that at some amount. That’s a personal decision (and we have an entire post with a full spreadsheet on whether to keep or cancel cards where you can enter your personal valuations to determine what is or is not worth however much to you: https://frequentmiler.com/which-premium-cards-are-keepers/).
No, we don’t have any data on breakage rates, nor do we survey people (that would be such incredibly skewed data so as to completely run afoul of our desire to be conservative in our valuations). And things like the Lyft credits we don’t value at all for a number of reasons. For starters, it is far less widely applicable than Uber (it doesn’t exist at all overseas, there is no Lyft Eats, etc). Additionally, unlike Amex Uber credits, which can be stacked together from multiple cards in your household and used on a single Uber ride or Uber Eats order, the Lyft and DoorDash credits are discounts that require using that specific card to pay the balance, they can’t be stacked, etc. If you value them, then certainly take that into consideration. We don’t bother on stuff like that.
We talked about AppleTV and AppleMusic. Those are obviously useful for people who subscribe to those things, but they have nothing to do with travel and they aren’t things that everybody can or would use. I’ve never subscribed to either and while some people I know do, I also know a lot of people (most of my close social circle) that doesn’t use Apple products at all. After years of using Spotify, I’m not going to go to the effort of rebuilding all of my music playlists and whatnot just to move to Apple Music and I was already not subscribing to AppleTV, so that’s not directly worth something to me. You might go back and say, “But you said that you try not to overly emphasize the value based on your personal circumstances” — and that’s true and a good point, but my counterpoint here is that unlike an Uber credit that almost anybody considering a travel credit card can likely find a use for either for rides to/from an airport or hotel OR food delivery whether while at home or away, AppleTV and AppleMusic subscriptions are far more specific. I’m sure they will be worth close to face value for people already subscribing to them, but there is a significant crowd for which the value would be $0 and it has nothing to do with travel in general, so we stay conservative and don’t assign it value. But I encourage you to look at your own situation and make your own decisions!
Regarding the CSP hotel booking coupon, I think not being able to find a use for it puts you in the minority of the minority. The vast vast vast majority of cardholders of all of the major transferable currency systems are redeeming their points for statement credits or Amazon purchases. While you and I may care about elite benefits and elite credit, most people aren’t afraid to book a one-night hotel stay through a credit card portal now and then and save $50 on it. I wouldn’t value it at $50 since you may be able to book the same hotel for less / stack with a portal elsewhere, but a complete inability to find a use for $50 off a hotel would be pretty rare. I’m not saying that you should value it at more than $0, but I think that an inability to book even a one-night stay by an airport somewhere for $50 off and feel like you saved something would be rare.
Generally speaking, we try to value the meat and potatoes benefits and do so conservatively. Obviously you may disagree with individual decisions we make and you should do your own math in those cases, but I think that most people find our math decisions to be reasonably conservative.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Nick.
I find it interesting to think this through, to question my assumptions about value. Maybe we’ll have to agree to disagree on some of this. Dining isn’t travel, neither is cell phone credit, nor the digital NYT / Disney+ credit. I grant that apple tv is more specific than those, and Uber is more widely available than Lyft (and can cover food except via Delta). But all that just affects the probability of it being useful, which goes to the value of the calculation. The internet says 64% of Americans own some apple product or other, and I’m not even sure that’s strictly necessary – my Roku tv would do Apple TV and Alexa would handle Apple music. I have Paramount even though I rarely watch it, because it’s free and it can come in handy sometimes. Lyft isn’t as omnipresent as Uber, but neither is present where you live, and both are present in many places you travel.
I have not figured out how to factor the value of freebies, necessary vs luxury. These Chase dinners would make P2 happy, and we’d never pay for them otherwise – which sure sounds like most of our travel. I need toner, so my amex biz gold credit is going to cover a necessity this month. How can we think about those two? The one is $20 in actual saved money, the other is $150 in notional money, normal dinners cooked at home are probably $15ish. Is the $150 fancy dinner actually “worth” $37.50, or $15, or $150? But it gets me something I’d not otherwise get.
Maybe there is no basis to distinguish free stuff we don’t exactly need (fancy dinners or Apple TV) from free stuff we would pay for irl. But if it doesn’t matter, then I don’t see why you include one and not the other, unless it’s because some of them are more “free stuff” and less “coupon percentage off.” I say, free stuff counts, coupons mostly should not.
No problem having different valuations. As I’ve said several times, you can and should come to your own numbers. Ours are not meant to be the be all and end all, just a decent conservative estimate for people considering the card. Feel free to count the things you want to count and don’t count the things you don’t want to count for your own situation. Not just feel free — you absolutely should be doing that. If you value free stuff, then great. Assign a value to the things that matter to you. We generally don’t assign a value to something that we don’t expect the vast majority of cardholders to use. Half of cardholders isn’t enough — if we’re going to assign a value, it has to be something that we think most people applying for the card can / very likely will use. That’s obviously somewhat subjective by nature, but we believe we’ve made good valuations for most people. Most of the feedback we receive about our first year valuations is that they are too low, but we want them that way so as not to overinflate first year value by assigning arbitrary numbers to things just because the benefits exist rather than attempting to think critically about what we expect people to use.
For what it’s worth, we don’t value Digital Entertainment credit for the same reason that we don’t value the Apple TV and Apple Music credits — as I said, we don’t just arbitrarily apply a value to every “free” thing because that would artificially inflate the first year value of lots of cards in a way that just isn’t broadly enough applicable. We do assign a value to the wireless credit (on the Amex Business Platinum card) because almost everybody has a cell phone bill and the Business Platinum card offers good cell phone protection, so it’s a good card to use for that purpose. If it were a $10 monthly credit for only Verizon cell phone service, we would value it at $0 because even though that will be worth close to face value for those who subscribe to Verizon, it’ll be worth $0 to all the people who don’t. We’ll go with the more conservative figure there and Verizon customers could adjust it upward. On the flip side, if it were the Verizon credit card offering a credit of $10 per month, we’d probably assign that a value under the assumption that if you’re considering applying for the Verizon credit card, you probably aren’t a T-Mobile customer.
For what it’s worth, you are correct to think about the dining credit and office supply store credit differently based on your situation. I don’t buy toner monthly and Staples charges far more for it than I’d pay on Amazon for my printer, but you and I can have different values there. And if you wouldn’t otherwise dine at a restaurant where you’d get the $150 credit, then you should obviously value it less than someone who dines out at qualifying restaurants weekly. Again, we try not to overvalue credits, but at the same time, I think it makes sense to consider the target market for the card. Like I said before, if you never stay at a Marriott, you might value Marriott free night certificates at $0, so your first year value for a Marriott credit card might be $0. But it wouldn’t make sense for us to value it that way because someone considering a $650 Marriott credit card presumably stays at a lot of Marriotts or else they probably wouldn’t (or shouldn’t?) be considering a $650 per year Marriott credit card. It’s similar here — I think that most people who would consider paying $800 per year for a credit card are spending more than $500 per year on travel at luxury hotels, so I feel comfortable valuing that credit at $125 for the general customer base of the card. You can certainly adjust.
Well… ok one last attempt to see if I can change your mind. Perhaps most people who would consider getting this card spend $500 on hotels – fair enough – but that’s not really the question. The question is whether they spend (a) at least $250 (b) on a 2+-night stay (c) every six months (d) at a particular list of hotels (e) which they book prepaid (f) through the Chase portal. I have no hesitation valuing the annual and bonus travel credit at close-to-face value, but the crEdit isn’t at all the same.
You don’t automatically get the crEdit, right? You have to book in a special way, possibly losing elite credits, so you’ll never trigger it accidentally. Perhaps some folks will want to get the free breakfast and will go out of their way to jump through these six hoops. Perhaps – but it’d be a lot easier to get the NYT or Disney or ESPN. In both cases, a person has to select from a curated number of options. If a limited number of digital providers precludes counting it, why give partial value to the crEdit?
I get that smaller dollar values are not as worth chasing, while the crEdit might look big enough to be worth some hassle. But does that logic really work for someone doing cash bookings at that type of hotel?
And if you’re valuing conservatively, you should exclude the possibility of getting value to the crEdit by using URs to cover the cash portion. But the value of URs now depends on the unknown variable of whether that hotel will get 2x on that particular date, and 1.5x is no longer guaranteed. I don’t think Nick Reyes nor any of his disciples will be spending URs at 1cpp. We have to assume that it won’t make sense to use URs on the booking (we’re talking about the SUB, so not grandfathered into 1.5x). So we are literally talking about people making cash bookings through the chase portal. I just cannot see how the value of the crEdit isn’t entirely speculative, esp when compared to other credits.
They’re not treating the “The Edit” coupons as 25% off the booking. They’re treating them as 25% of the face value (eg, the $500 benefit is worth $125 in their calculations). That’s a major discount on the face value.
Of course – they’re calculating the perk as worth 25% of the paper value, $500 in potential credits is worth $125. I think differently of coupons that give me something free, even if it’s a bottle of water, and those in-flight food / 25% off deals. I don’t normally purchase food in flight, and 25% off isn’t going to sway me. If it were 75% off, that would be different.
Weird comment. I challenge you to find a blog in this space that “shows [its] work” more than frequent miler.
Like if I had to write a description of all the various blogs in this space, I think my description of Frequent Miler would be “these quys show their work.”
And if I can go overboard, putting to the side their cool travel challenges, showing the work is like the raison d’etre of Frequent Miler.
Datapoints are starting to come in and it looks as though some are getting approved despite holding a sapphire and receiving a bonus in the past. But it does seem as though having a CSP will disqualify you, despite the “may” language.
On report on reddit says they got the pop up and it expressly said: “Current holders of personal Chase Sapphire cards are also ineligible.”
So, that would answer that.
Still open whether there is any kind of silent 48 month rule. That’s the big question to me — whether I should downgrade my CSP in order to apply for this card. I got the SUB on the CSP within the last 48 months.
Getting rid of the preferred is dicey for me, because I won’t have the ability to transfer points. Can I downgrade to flex and then upgrade back to preferred if I don’t get approved for Reserve?
Alternatively, I haven’t been approved for an Ink in a while, so maybe I’ll try for the Ink Preferred, and if I get it then I can downgrade Preferred safely.
Product changes are reversible for a period of time, I want to say 30 days, but it may be 60. So yeah, you don’t even have to upgrade again, just call and say you want to reverse the product change.
2016 sure seems like a long time ago.
I had the Reserve originally. Then downgraded to the Preferred. There is no way I’m going to get this one. Too expensive, too complicated, and too many other options.