Reports continue to trickle in from people who report that Chase closed down all of their accounts. This often happens soon after opening a new Chase card. Sometimes it happens after making a single very large purchase. Sometimes it seems to be triggered by an abrupt increase in spend overall.
When people ask Chase why they were shut down, Chase often refers to the large number of accounts they opened (not just with Chase) in the past year. Fortunately, Chase will sometimes review the decision and overturn it.
Why Chase shutdowns happen
This Reddit post offers a logical explanation for why Chase is shutting down accounts. The theory is that Chase is actively trying to avoid Bust-out Fraud. Bust-out fraud is where a fraudster builds up their credit with responsible credit card use and then suddenly runs up all of their balances before disappearing. This Experian white paper describes the bust-out process as follows:
…the fraudster builds up a history of good behavior with timely payments and low utilization. Over time, he or she obtains additional lines of credit and requests higher credit limits. Eventually, the fraudster uses all available credit and stops making payments. Overpayments with bad checks are often made in the final stage of the bust-out, temporarily inflating the credit limit and causing losses greater than the account credit limit.
The problem for credit card rewards enthusiasts is that our behavior patterns often look exactly like these bust-out fraudsters, with the exception of the final fraudulent bust-out activity (which we don’t do!).
The old (but still relevant) shutdown reasons
The Experian white paper asserts that lenders typically look for suspicious activities to identify bust-out behavior:
Examples of suspicious activities are frequent convenience checks; frequent cash advances; multiple payments within one billing period from different accounts and different sources; purchases from high-risk, high-value merchants; and unusual purchase amounts (e.g., $1,000 at a dry cleaner). Some issuers use these factors in models to predict bust-outs.
Those who heavily manufacture spend often exhibit many of the above listed behaviors. They are known to make multiple payments within one billing period, and they certainly make purchases in unusual purchase amounts. Those who have been manufacturing spend heavily for a while are used to getting shut down for these activities.
The new shutdown reasons
The Experian white paper goes on to argue that predictive bust-out scores can be computed entirely from credit data:
…Issuers that only utilize internal transaction and payment data see only account activities in their own organization…
Credit reporting data provides a perspective on how account holders behave across the credit spectrum. Behaviors such as credit line increases, new accounts, changes in utilization and balance growth can all be captured through credit reporting data. By generating a wider perspective, the bust-out predictors can be observed months before the bust-out is executed…
I think it is safe to say that Chase has bought into this argument. Whether or not they specifically use Experian’s bust-out scoring is irrelevant. It’s clear from many datapoints that Chase is using credit reporting data and that shut-downs are often triggered by some of the behaviors Experian described above (credit line increases, new accounts, changes in utilization and balance growth).
Summary of Shut-Down Causes
Your accounts can be shut down due to suspicious spending activity (on your Chase cards), or suspicious patterns on your credit report which is collected across all of your accounts (not just Chase accounts). Anecdotally it seems that applying for a new Chase credit card is one of the ways to ensure that Chase will evaluate you overall for suspicious activity.
Avoiding Chase shutdowns
The following advice is conjecture. I have no reasonable way to test this advice.
1. Keep your credit report clean
An ideal credit report shows a long credit history with no bad marks, few new inquiries, few new accounts, and a low credit utilization:
- Long credit history: Don’t cancel your oldest credit cards since closed accounts will eventually drop off your report. If you’re not using the cards anymore, product change them to no-fee cards and keep them alive with an occasional small purchase (some banks will close credit cards that have no activity after 6 months or so).
- Few new inquiries: When you apply for new credit cards, card issuers will submit a “hard inquiry” to one or more credit bureaus. Unlike the other factors here, inquiries are not automatically shared across credit bureaus. So, for example, your Experian report and Equifax reports will show different numbers of inquiries. Therefore, one way to limit inquiry damage when applying for new cards is to spread out the inquiries. Here are a few ways to accomplish that:
- You can use the Credit Pulls Database to figure out which report a bank is likely to pull from before you apply, and avoid applying to those that are likely to push your inquiry count too high.
- You can freeze the credit reports with high inquiry counts and ask the card issuer to pull from the report that wasn’t frozen (but they won’t always be willing to do so). Doctor of Credit has a useful post about this technique here.
- Often, applying for multiple cards from the same bank on the same day will result in only one credit inquiry on your credit report. So, if you’re going to apply for a card anyway, you can get more bang for your buck by applying for two. Our Best Offers page includes App Tips for each bank which indicate when the inquiries are combined.
- Few new accounts: Unlike inquiries, new accounts are usually shown on all three credit reports. The obvious way to limit the number of new accounts is to rarely sign up for new cards. Another option is to sign up for business cards which do not appear on personal credit reports. You can find our automatically calculated Top N list of business card signup offers here. Note that Capital One is an exception in that they do report business cards to the personal credit bureaus. Barclays does too… sometimes. It’s unclear when Barclays reports the cards and when they do not (if anyone has insight into this, please let me know!).
- Low credit utilization: Credit utilization is defined as the amount of credit available that you’ve used in a given month. For example, if you have $100,000 in available credit and you charged a total of $5,000 within a month, then your utilization is only 5% (which is good). Banks report credit used once per month to the credit bureaus, usually when your statement closes. You can keep your utilization down by paying off some or all of the amount owed before your statement closes. Keep in mind, though, that frequent intermittent payments can be a risk factor as well. Also note that some banks report utilization on different schedules (see this Doctor of Credit post for more).
2. Keep your Chase card activity clean
As a reminder, Experian noted these suspicious activities: “frequent convenience checks; frequent cash advances; multiple payments within one billing period from different accounts and different sources; purchases from high-risk, high-value merchants; and unusual purchase amounts.” That leads us to these obvious recommendations:
- Avoid convenience checks and cash advances: You should avoid these anyway. You won’t earn rewards from these cash advances, but you will have to pay fees and interest.
- Avoid multiple payments within one billing period from different accounts and different sources: Try to pay your Chase credit card bills from a single source and make just one or two payments per month. If you are doing heavy manufactured spend that requires cycling your credit limit daily, then I recommend doing so with a different bank besides Chase. Pick one where you don’t mind getting shut down.
- Avoid purchases from high-risk, high-value merchants; and unusual purchase amounts: This one is a bit tougher in that we don’t know which merchants Chase considers to be high risk / high value. But it is clear that a sudden flurry of large repeated purchases will look suspicious. So, if you insist on using your Chase cards to buy gift cards, I recommend ramping up slowly over time. A sudden jump in spend of this type will look suspicious.
3. Avoid signing up for new Chase cards if your credit report already looks suspicious
Chase continues to have many of the best signup offers, so I would never say to avoid Chase cards altogether. However, if your credit report shows a large number of recent inquiries and new accounts, you may want to hold off. At least consider the risk when debating the pros and cons of getting a new Chase card.
Bottom Line
Chase has been shutting down accounts due to suspicious card activity and credit activity. Reviews seem to be triggered, in part, by applying for new Chase cards. Having too many new accounts on your credit report is a clear risk factor. Unfortunately, we don’t know how many accounts is too many. Nor do we know why some accounts are reinstated after review and others are not. Hopefully following the recommendations given in this post will keep you safe.

Credit Pulls Database link above needs updated. -Jason
Fixed. Thanks!
Chase approved me for $32,000 line of credit with a Chase Sapphire Reserve. I used it one time and they put a hold on my card. I called in finally after waiting 2 hours on the phone and verified all of my information. The next day they cancelled the card. I make over 20 times the amount
of the credit line, no late payments, payoff my credit cards before the end of the month (even made 1 payment on this card), and was told I have too much credit and too many inquiries with in a certain period (Didn’t they know this before I got the card?) All in all their excuses were all lame and I am thinking as soon as the courts open to sue them just to see what happens.
I felt as though this would damage my credit and wanted Chase to remove it from my credit report. I am thinking about suing Chase for damaging my credit. I went through extensive verification and qualification to get the card and now that it has reported on my credit report they closed the account down for no reason. I am hearing a bout this from other individuals and if Chase feels as though people who pay on time and make a significant income (My income was not affected by Coronavirus) then I do not wish to do business with them in the future.
Talking to the lady on the phone while verifying my account I felt negative vibes the entire time. I explained I was attempting to make a $1,200.00 purchase and she told me that was too much for a new card. By the time I got off the phone I asked whether she was going to remove the block on my card. She stated she need to get me off the phone in order to do it. The next day my account was closed.
They are very arrogant and you get the sense that they do not value their customers at all. Jamie Diamond, CEO of JPMorgan Chase, is the real culprit behind the attitude of his employees. I talked to one of their customer service reps and told them I would be serving Mr. Diamond a civil action lawsuit if I was not told the reason for the closure of my account. They cited too many applications and too much credit lines. Appealing will get you no where. They will cite that the application for the credit cards states that they can cancel for any reason (Good or Bad faith). Finally I got a call from one of their supervisors and she insinuated that my account may be fraudulent (after reading the above article now I see why she felt that way) even though I have no late payments. I do pay y credits cards off weekly to avoid affecting my FICO score by keeping my debt to income ration law.
These people are ridiculous and I will not be doing business with them in the future and I would not recommend this card to anyone. American Express Platinum and Master Card Black are just as good or better.
MY ADVICE:
Concentrate on building business credit. it is much more rewarding.
Chase is notorious for closing accounts. I am done doing business with them and I think a lot of people should stop trying to conform to this corporation’s overreach. As far as I have good credit and financially sound, I can buy anything I want and apply for cards as much as I want, they can decline the cards, no problem. Freedom is being able to spend your money however way you want without worrying about account closure. Chase and Wellsfargo already on my blacklisted banks.
Sorry for what you went through, and I agree that Chase handled this poorly.
I’d will also mention, though, (as someone who has worked in customer service for a long time) that telling a customer service rep that you’re going to sue the company is completely meaningless. People say they’re going to sue all the time. We actually would rather you sue, then the lawyers have to handle it (not the reps.)
If you’re going to sue, just do it.
[…] on any one issuer’s card(s) as this is a common trigger for account shut downs. Also see Why Chase shutdowns have increased and how to avoid them. This may become even more relevant in a […]
I wake up to a savings account and no checking account, and have to wait for a cashier’s check to get my funds from my old checking account. Wow!!!!!
[…] being approved for a second new account. I’d recommend exercising some caution on that (See: Why Chase shutdowns have increased and how to avoid them) — two applications in close proximity appears to be one of the triggers that has led to some […]
I just got all of my accounts at Chase closed “Freedom (13 years), Marriott (6 years), Amazon (3 years), Southwest (3 years), Disney (2 years). Pretty tough pill to swallow. Although I had been MS pretty hard the last year or so. Companion passes multiple years, high Marriott Status, free annual passes at Disney etc… Do you think I am banned for life from Chase? Or do you think it is 6 months? Year? 2 years? 5 years? I believe I got closed because Bank Of America also shut down 5 cards of mine earlier this month. I suspect it showed up when Chase did a credit pull.
Have you ever heard of someone able to open new accounts with either Chase or BOA after being closed?
Good questions. I don’t know if or when you’ll be able to apply again. Anyone else have data on that?
Please tell me I’m paranoid so I can apply for the CSR… and maybe the Hayatt. With all the chase shutdown stories I’ve been reading to make sure I avoid the wrath of Chase I’m getting gun shy. I’ve got a really good thing going right now, and I’d be fine without them…. but I also reeeally want the CSR and maybe even the Hyatt. Am I dumb for apply for one or both right now? I really don’t want them looking into my spending habits on their business products… I’m taking full advantage of the bonus categories.
US bnk Flex 4/2017 (before I knew anything about points)
Some dumb US bank line of credit that is still on my report 4/2017
CIP 4/2018 (Business)
Amx Blue 4/2018 (business)
Freedom 4/2018
Ink Cash 9/2018 (business)
Amex Gold Bus 10/2018 (business)
Utilization ~ 0%
Credit score is high 776ish
Debt (student loans, mortgage, 2 cars) is less than 2x my annual income
Credit from chase is equal to only 22% of my income (3% if you count just personal)
I feel like I could apply for both and be just fine, but man, I’m also doing fine if I just stay as is
Personally I’d go for it in your situation, but it’s impossible to say how risky it is.
My wife and I both have the Aviator business card, and it isn’t reported on either of our credit reports. I only applied for this card upon reading about similar datapoints about this card and its reporting.
[…] As is the case with most Chase personal cards, the new cardmember bonus is not available to you if you have received a welcome bonus on this card in the past 24 months. This card is not subject to the Chase 5/24 rule (it will add to your 5/24 count, but the rule is not applied in approval decisions for this card). That said, keep in mind that shut downs have increased a bit this year and a new Chase account has precipitated shut downs in some instances if a customer opens a new Chase account after opening many other new accounts in the past year (See: Why Chase shutdowns have increased and how to avoid them.) […]
[…] people in the points and miles hobby, but there has been a good deal of talk about elevated lending risk from various banks over the past six months or […]
Someone please help me. I’ve been a very loyal customer to chase and out of nowhere they shut me down. They informed me that they will not tell me the reason and no one will ever tell me the reason. I have a recording of this. They were extremely rude. I’ve always paid on time and haven’t opened a card with them in the last 6 months… any legal action possible? They gave me no heads up.
Call and ask them to review your case. Many have had the shutdowns reversed this way
Shutdown’s are not only with Chase. I had shutdowns with Bank of America and Barclay last year. Luckily that happened after I already got the signup bonus.
[…] Greg the Frequent Miler recently posted an explanation on why these shutdowns are happening. Chase is trying to fight what is called bust out fraud. Fraudulent people where building credit by paying their bills on time and keeping their utilization low. Slowly, they were able to build up trust by banks and getting approved for high credit card limits. Then they ran up high balances and disappeared. […]
Had a shut down and reinstatement at couple of months ago. I’d opened 4 chase and 2 non-chase cards within a few months.
I obviously don’t want to get shut down again so wont be opening any new chase cards.
Any thoughts on the risk of opening new non-chase cards causing a shutdown of my chase cards?
The only risk of opening non-Chase cards is if you then do something that causes Chase to pull your credit history again. That *something* could be applying for a new Chase card, applying for a loan, asking for a credit line increase, etc.
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
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[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
[…] frequented by the users. Customers with no obvious credit black marks or rules violations were suddenly having their card accounts shut down by […]
I’ve just gotten shutdown by chase yesterday. never thought that it would happened since i always lower my credit limit with chase. i”m at 6/24 and plus 3 business cards. cards ive gotten in a year is
June 2017 – personal spg
July 2017 freedom unlimited
September 2017 PRG
march 2018 CSR/ OLD IHG (double dipped) also after making MSR i’ve lowered my credit limit from CSR and ihg total of $14,000.
then in may i’ve gotten 3 business cards (2 amex business cards no hard inquire and 1 Barclay business card)
July 2018 first week i got World of hyatt (i got approved with the credit limit of $10,900 and then lowered it to $5,000 right away)
July 2018 late last day for Ritz card (approved for $13,900 then SM’d right away and lowered it to $10,000)
then until august 7 everything was good but then later it got shutdown. i called the Ritz line but they told me the department was closed so call back tomorrow. now i’m just waiting to the letter to show you so i can give them a call. also on august 6 a day before shutdown I’ve added my SO as an authorize user but she has different last name and i told them that she would be using the card in Canada. i wonder if that has anything to do with it. they are probably thinking that i’m gonna run away to Canada as well.
I’ve banked with them for about 11 years now and had credit card for 5 years now. never had a late payment with them and also never bought GC until last time when ODOM was running a special and i only bought $400 worth of VGC. i really hope that this was their mistake and would reopen my cards since i’ll be using their cards until they last and would never cancel.
If you want to avoid the transfer madness between departments call 800-290-1316. This is the direct number for the Chase fraud prevention line. These are the yahoos handling the shutdowns.
lot of people are telling me to wait for the letter and first try to find out the reasoning why i was shutdown. idk how long it will take for the letter to come in but will just have to wait and see now.
Took almost a week to get the letter. And it said exactly what the fraud department said it would say.
so you’re saying it’s better to call in now instead of waiting for the letter to arrive? would you mind sharing what king of question and info they ask for or look for?
Probably. The clock on re-opening accounts starts when they close them. They give you 30 days from the date of closure to convince them that your accounts should be re-opened. After that the accounts can no longer be re-opened.
As for what to tell them, I would look around the web at the stories from people who were able to reverse the shutdown. I won’t know how well it works until they finish their review of my file.
https://www.travelonpointsandmiles.com/news/chase-shutdown
Here is all my stats I hope this will cause no problems since I’ve seen people with way more cards getting reopened.
I see you got your accounts reinstated. Nice!
Yes!!! I’m so glad it did.
Did you ever call Chase or did they just reopen your accounts with the info they already had?
No, I didn’t call chase at all. I think they did second review on my account and decided to open.
Yeah, that is interesting. I am starting to think that the shutdowns are completely done by a computer program. Chase must then take a look at a handful of them to verify the code is doing what they want. Yours was probably on of the ones flagged for further review.
Probably but I’m happy with the outcome. I wonder since I was shutdown can I ever be shutdown again?
I think “double jeopardy” only applies for murder trials and not credit card shutdowns lol. You’re probably under closer scrutiny now than before.
This just happened to me yesterday. I had two open accounts with Chase (both opened earlier this year). I went to open a third one and the next day all of my accounts were closed (they had even already approved the third one). No warning about this happening. 100% on-time payment record with chase, been paying off accounts in full each month. The reasons given were “Past unsatisfactory relationship with Chase” (complete BS) and too many accounts closed at bank’s request (these were closed for non-use). All spending has been organic as I can easily hit the spending requirements with reimbursable travel.
If it weren’t for the Southwest and Marriott rewards Visa cards I would tell Chase just where to stick it. Unfortunately I have called them asking for the accounts to be re-opened. Now I have to wait and see what happens.
How much churning have you done at Chase and outside Chase? I’m at 8/24 and thinking about applying for two more chase cards
The new card put me at 4/24 (closed a United card earlier this year after the annual fee) with Chase with no other cards. Its been awhile since I last did this and I was trying to get enough points to renew my SWA companion pass. I am really surprised that I got shutdown. Maybe Chase is getting more aggressive?
Wow, that’s nuts. Hopefully it’s a mistake and they’ll re-open your accounts.
Hopefully that is true. For now I am in the 10-business day limbo. Will try pinging them tomorrow and see what they say.
They finally got back to me and after trying to justify why they did it they reopened all my accounts and restored the credit limits. Was pleasantly surprised. Now I have to get started on the MS for the Marriott card.
Great!
I got a letter from Chase that I had used a credit balance to pay off two consecutive statements. If I continued that behavior, they would cancel my card. I checked and I had only used a credit balance (from 3 returns to an online store in one statement) to pay off the next statement. I never heard from them again and that was 6 months ago. Has anyone gotten a letter like that?
Interesting (and weird). I haven’t heard of that. Anyone else?
As a data point, ! applied for the Marriott Business card (not 5/24) and got denied because I had applied for and gotten too many Chase cards this year. I would have delayed applying except for the new rules coming later this month would have excluded me. It had taken me two years of no applications to get under 5/24, and then since the beginning of the year, I got the Chase Business Preferred, the United, the Marriott Premier Plus and most recently, the Ritz Carlton. I’m glad I got the Ritz card before the door slammed shut. And now that I read NH’s comment, I’m glad it didn’t trigger a shutdown. The rep wouldn’t give me any idea of how much time I needed to let pass before I could successfully apply. Greg, do you have any data points on that?
I turned around and applied for the SPG personal card and got instant approval from Amex.
It’s fairly common for Chase to decline applications if you’ve signed up for a number of their cards recently. They seem to be especially tough with business cards for some reason. No, I don’t know how long you would need to wait, but I’d recommend calling a few days before 8/26 to see if they are willing to re-assess your application at that time.
[…] Chase customers getting accounts frozen even when they’ve been paying on time, in full, and I’d give it a read if I were […]
I applied for a Marriot biz and Alaska Biz in March 2018. Prior to this, I have not applied for any Chase Card for at least 2 years. However, I did apply for the Alaska Air Personal Card in December 2017. I would like to cancel the old Hyatt card (received bonus June 30, 2016) and then apply for the new Hyatt card. Will this be considered risky to Chase as applying for too many credit cards? If not, how long should I wait to apply for the new Hyatt Credit card after cancelling the Old Hyatt card?
Thanks
In terms of the number of applications you’ve done, I don’t think that’s a problem at all — if you’ve had 3 credit card applications in the past ~year (and two are business cards), you’re well under the threshold of too much.
As for how long to wait before applying, conventional wisdom says to wait at least 2-3 weeks, though some people have been able to cancel a card and re-apply the same day. I’d suggest giving it a couple of weeks to make sure you’re out of the system as a “current cardholder”.
I have 7k credit limit on the old Hyatt. Should I be decreasing the amount first then close it? If so, would this be suspicious? And If I do decrease it first, how long to wait before closing the account? I understand the new Hyatt is not affected by the 524 rule yet but it may in the future. Do you know if it may be within 3 months or so?
Thanks Nick for your prompt reply .
I don’t think there would be any benefit to decreasing the limit before cancelling.
I never reduce credit. Credit is an asset not to be given away. Rather, wyhen you close an account, ask to have the credit line from that account transferred to another Chase card you have. They may not always transferr all of the CL, usually you’ll lose about $1000 of it. But this way you have more bargaining power: say you later apply for some other new card and they say you have too much credit already then you can offer to take some of that recently transferred credit to a new card – thus you are not asking for more credit and so less risk to the bank. I do it all the time.
[…] short amount of time, and with the way Chase has been shutting down accounts in recent months (See: Why Chase shutdowns have increased and how to avoid them), I wouldn’t advise you to open a new credit card and spend $54,000 on it in the first […]
[…] Why Chase shutdowns have increased and how to avoid them. – If you thought Chase 5/24 was bad, Chase is getting even more serious about getting rid of fraud. Credit card churners and heavy MS-ers are getting caught up in the mess because their activity closely resembles fraudulent activity. Be careful out there. […]
I just got the Citi AA Biz card with a $20k limit I lowered it down to $5k which sets me up for the NEXT card . But not from Chase for 2 years I bet . Almost anyways away around stuff .
CHEERs
So it seems like if we were to be lowering our credit limits (like I often do to avoid the new card denial reason of too much credit already), we shouldn’t fit the risk profile they’re looking for.
I read that a Chase CSR mentioned that 4 accounts opened within a 1 year period triggers red flags with Chase.
From recent experience of a Chase Shutdown they give you 30 days to use your UR points as you wish. You can still transfer to award programs, book travel through UR or transfer to a household member. They even paid the bonus points and statement points for the statement that closed after the initial freeze.
So don’t apply for two credit cards (Ink Cash and Unlimited) same time/day?
I hate Chase for their high minimum spending for bonus and never throw a retention offer despite many years of paying AF. I’m forced with them because they have my two oldest cards.
A minor nit, TD business cards are reported to your credit report as well, it’s not just Cap One.
[…] In this hobby it’s incredibly important not to bite off more than you can chew, figuratively speaking. If you are someone who has a hard time juggling multiple credit cards, it’s better to pick few good options, based on your everyday spending patterns, and call it a day. And there is certainly an upside to not applying for a lot of cards: you don’t have to worry about Chase 5/24 rule or a potential bank shutdown. […]
I agree. Things were much different about 10-20 years ago. It was easy to get many cards (from the same provider) at once and most had small mins to get the bonus. Some were just based on a single charge and many were $1000.00 or less. I think many were just $500 bucks. You could get the same bonuses over and over with many of the companies. There has been alot of consolidation and then the banking crisis hit. Still all in all the prime customers are still valued by the card companies. I think a much more conservative approach is needed.
And for those that mention why Chase or whatever. I burn no bridges. I do no MS. But I had some issues with Chase in the past that I got resolved to my full satisfaction. They are very prickly even about what was normal patters for me. Since major changes to SPG I will use Hyatt alot more. So that is one reason for me. Amex will also scrutinize these things. If they start getting losses they will be more aggressive.
If Chase closes my account, do I loose Chase’s points? Does it give me time to transfer points to its transfer partners?
I don’t think you’s have an opportunity to transfer. But you might get the cash value (1 cent per point) for them.
If you fight hard you get the points valued at one cent.
[…] here as a new account can be the first step toward triggering a Chase shut down (See our post on why Chase shutdowns happen and how to avoid them for more on that). Still, for those who understand the triggers and/or accept the risks, this is […]
Any reports of locking all your credit reports causing shutdowns?
Unlikely, as existing issuers can still instigate soft pulls for account reviews etc even from locked CRs. If anything, an issuer seeing locked reports for a customer can be satisfied that the subject isn’t going to be looking for or signing up for new products as it would be almost impossible to obtain further credit without the new prospective lender being able to verify the applicant’s credit files.
No. Locking your reports is considered a good safe practice
[…] As I said, it is getting harder out there. Why Chase shutdowns have increased and how to avoid them. […]
Screw Chase. Why anyone who plays the CC game bothers with them is a mystery.
On “Avoid purchases from high-risk, high-value merchants; and unusual purchase amounts,” with my experience dealing with US Bank, gas stations are the biggest one that can overlap with us, large purchases at those trigger more alerts than anywhere I’ve shopped.
[…] Avoiding Card Shutdowns: Our card activity may seem a bit weird to mere mortals, and some banks may consider it as suspicious. Because of this, some banks have taken drastic measures to close down accounts. Here’s a good read on why this is happening. […]
Well..lucky for me, I have both a 6 figure investment and my home mortgage with Chase. I think this is why I’m given more reign in my applications/spending patterns. They figure that my total combined credit limit with all their cards is less than my investments, let alone my investments + home value, which they could easily seize should I try defrauding them.
I would not try to apply logic to Chase based on that or any other factor. A few years ago on a major issue where they closed accounts, they closed an account with a customer who had a Private banker at a Chase branch. And the private baker could do nothing since its another dept.
Well, they have just as much to lose as I do. They close my credit accounts? Guess what, I move my investments elsewhere and refinance to another bank. MAD theory at work, basically.
u have no idea what ur talking about. are you even CPC or private bank JPM? those have been closed. ur investments and mortgage mean nothing.
It definitely makes things more interesting now when one must generate 20k of spend to fulfill the objectives of Iberia and Aer Lingus. So far going strong with oldest card being about 16 years and with 3 no 5 24 cards added within the past 7 month and about 18 cards opened in the past 12 months. Thats the Chase casino.
Do we have a sense as to how widespread these shutdowns really are? I’ve found a few dozen solid stories online. Not discounting any of them, but in the context of Chase’s XYZ million customers, we might be looking at a very noisy but incredibly small minority.
The people engaging in this hobby are already an incredibly small minority of the XYZ million customers, so those shut down are definitely a small number relative to the whole of Chase’s customer base. That said, the behaviors noted in the post are more common in those who engage in this hobby — so you are increasing your likelihood of being in that small minority if you’re engaging in the behaviors the bank deems risky. Everyone has a different appetite for risk, so to each his own in how to respond to the reports — but between the uptick in public reports, reports from some people who have reached out privately, and the existence of some information that might explain the cause and behaviors to avoid, it seemed worth a warning.
I concur; for those who do volume MS, it is very challenging to stay under radar. IOW, volume MS and flying under radar don’t mix, there will be a point the bank will notice activities in one’s account that’s why it’s often suggested “Do NOT call the bank” unless you want eyes on your account; we have to weigh issues first if they’ll resolve by themselves and if they don’t, we ask ourselves if we’re prepared for adverse actions should a human scrutinize our account(s).
Reports like this are useful to me, for those who think they’re not affected by any means can just ignore articles like this.
This topic is very timely. Most of our Chase accounts are in my name, but a couple in my husband’s name. Recently he applied for th new IHG card,instant approval, the card arrived at the same time a lettter from Chase Fraud. It was murky and garbled, but indicated some kind of a problem and they had closed this new account. After dorking around with them for two weeks, he got disgusted and will close the other accounts in his name. Nobody could make any coherent explanation of what the issue was. I’ve just checked the 3 major credit agencies and there’s nothing negative reported. It leaves a lingering concern about what made them do this in the first place. I guess I’ll just continue closely monitoring it all and move on with life. Most annoying.
One thing you didn’t mention was people getting their Chase accounts(including credit cards) shut down for activity in their Chase bank account. A lot of people on the forums recommend not to bank with Chase if you are an MSer. Or at least not to use your Chase bank account for MS(no money order deposits!)
Good point
Ya, i was doing that and have since stopped cold. Only use it for direct deposit of my paychecks now.
Yep, I got shut down for signing up for Chase check promo and soon thereafter (10 days) had my CCs closed.
I never ever will get a CC from my bank BMO why would u want them to know all unless it a home loan ? Worked for 30 years.
CHEERs
Barclays pulled my TU for the AA 50k one-purchase business card. They also asked for proof of business existence. Approved about 3 weeks later. I live in Florida.
Do you have a real business? What proof did you provide sir?
Yes. However it’s a sole prop, so I did not have articles of incorporation, stocks or some of the things they suggested. I just sent a copy of my tax return’s Schedule E and that was sufficient.
Did it hit your personal credit report?
All requests for new credit will result in an inquiry, except AMEX which seems to often not do them (personal or business) for long time customers. A business credit card not being on your credit report means that it doesn’t show in your list of open accounts. The inquiry will always appear.
This seems to be the confusion about Barclay biz CCs, as there has not been one verified instance of a Barclay biz CC appearing on anyone’s list of open accounts.
Does this apply to opening new Chase business credit cards?
yes
Cool to see my Reddit post is helpful! I REALLY URGE people to go read the links I provided to original sources. There’s a lot of information about more specific risk factors such as geographic location and how network analysis may also be used. I want to highlight one thing in particular:
NEVER sell access to your account to the services that add people on as AUs to raise your credit scores. It is VERY LIKELY this will link you into what are called “synthetic identities” that could be picked up in a network analysis of linked accounts. As this network analysis becomes more effective (and as the fraudulent networks of synthetic identities grow) risk of adverse action will continue long after you’ve linked and unlinked these accounts.
Thanks for the added advice! I’m thinking of doing a follow-up that digs into this more detailed info.
Blue, a couple follow-up Q’s on your Reddit post:
Rolling six-month increase in bankcards of 2-3 and/or a ~30 percent increase.
Rolling six-month increase of 3-4 BANKCARD inquiries and/or a ~50 percent increase.
When you say 30% increase are you saying a 30% increase in number of credit lines (versus AMOUNT of the credit lines). I.E. If someone has 10 credit cards and acquires 3-4 new ones in a span of 2-3 months then that would trigger this 30% threshold?
Also I didn’t understand this comment:
“Average of 2.5 cards at or over 50 percent utilization that increases to 5.”
Can you clarify
“Much less likely to have a credit union trade account (0.3 lines for bust-outs compared to 0.9 for good credit accounts).”
What do you mean here by “trade account”? Is this referring to a Credit Union LOC?
“Asking repeatedly for credit line increases.”
I’m wondering how Chase would know if someone is asking for credit line increases on their Citi, BofA, AmEx, Etc. Cards. I frequently have banks increase my credit lines with no request or input from me.
Thanks for all the info!
I think I’m missing the obvious, but I don’t see a link to the reddit post below or anything. Care to point a blind man in the right direction. Want to learn all i can.
I hate getting those mailers from any bank with convenience checks. That seems like a huge risk for fraud if someone else gets my mail. What is the best way to avoid getting those?
Have you tried calling the bank and asking them to stop sending you the convenience checks?
Try contacting Chase. I think there’s also option to disable in this on their website. I might have done it via secure message, I don’t remember since it’s been a while.
I had to call Chase and Citi to stop sending me convinience checks and told them about mailbox pilferage in our area. It took at least two calls before these checks stopped coming but I’m glad I don’t get them now.