I’m pretty sure that I usually come across on this blog as calm and collected. I try to anyway. Usually. But not in this post. I’m pissed. The baby in business class debate has come up before in other blogs, but I’ve never before thought much about it. This time is different, maybe because it hits close to home. I don’t personally have skin in the game anymore (my son is 19), but the trigger to the debate this time was Nick’s son. And I’m willing to let “calm and collected” fly out the window. I find myself suddenly passionate about this debate. Of course it’s OK to fly with your baby in business class! In my opinion, entitled premium class travelers have no right to dictate what a family does. I can make logical arguments, but primarily for me it’s just a gut feel for right and wrong. Traveling with your baby, in any class of service, may be disruptive to others (much more so in economy by the way!) but you have every right to do so. You don’t have the right to tell others where to sit or whether or not to travel. Na na na boo boo. I’ll post Nick’s cam and collected view below.
Background
The other day, Nick published a great review comparing ANA business class to Delta One Suites. He and his family flew ANA to Tokyo and Delta on the return. While there are many details in the post, my read is that both ANA and Delta were very good, but ANA’s outstanding service set them apart. In a big way. I’ve never flown ANA, but now I really want to.
“No babies in business class”
Some readers had a very different take-away. They complained about Nick bringing a baby along in business class:
In response to a question of whether Nick was worried about flying business class with a baby, one person wrote:
Don’t be an ass like the poster and fly up front with your kid. There is no reason to fly with very small children/babies.
Another agreed:
Couldn’t agree more. Self centered behavior these days. No consideration for others. The vast majority of cases people don’t need to take these trips with infants and toddlers. Wait a couple years until the kid is old enough for flying or find alternative arrangements.
And:
People should have to pay more taxes if they have babies.
My reply
Nick’s calm and collected reply
Here’s Nick’s reply to the person who asked if he was worried about flying business class with a baby:
My son is 15 months old.
As you can see, people have strong opinions on this topic. Was I afraid? No. My wife was nervous about it, both from the standpoint of his potential discomfort as well as being disruptive to other passengers. I have no desire to be disruptive either, but I was confident that we’d be able to mostly keep him happy (we took a number of shorter test flights and he never had trouble with his ears nor seemed particularly bothered by flying — it’s just sitting still that’s a challenge at this stage). I figured we could manage that.
My perspective on babies flying in premium cabins is this: I figure that in the vast majority of cases, there are 3 types of people flying in premium cabins:
1) The independently wealthy / those who can just plain afford it.
2) Business people whose company is paying for it
3) People using airline miles (or bump vouchers, etc)I figure that group #1 doesn’t suddenly start flying in economy class once they have kids (they bring their kids). Group #2 certainly has a legitimate gripe if they’re looking to arrive rested and prepared for a meeting. But then, the vast majority of those business people whose companies pay thousands to fly them in business class also earn a salary that supports buying a nice set of noise-cancelling headphones. I know this because most of them seem to be wearing them from take off to touch down. As a member of group #3, I feel awfully darn lucky to be flying up front using a made-up currency that I’m able to generate with relative ease. I don’t know whether or not it’ll be possible to do this forever, so I’ll enjoy the ride while it lasts and enjoy the opportunity to raise my son with experiences my family didn’t even dream of when I was a kid and I won’t feel too bad about it.
On my first premium transcon flight, there was a man in the row behind us who seemed like he might not be happy to be seated behind a baby. Our son got a little fussy, so I was in the galley behind rocking him to keep him calm. That man saw us in the galley and came up and asked how old he was — 7 months at the time. That man then lit up and smiled at my son and said, “You can yell as much as you want, I’m not mad. You’re alive and that’s a miracle. Be excited!” Little acts of kindness along the way like that lead me to believe that most people have kids and were kids at one point and understand what it’s like.
Again, I certainly do everything I can to avoid being disruptive and we time things out to have him ready to eat / nap at the right times as best we can. If you do the same and you’re making an effort to keep the situation contained, I think that’s reasonable and you’ll be OK.
BTW, I’ll add to that that if you are concerned about a baby being disruptive in a more spacious business class environment, I doubt he or she will be less disruptive in economy class. For us, a big part of the ability to manage him and keep him pretty calm is the fact that we have the space to move around a little bit in the business class cabin.
Your turn
Comment below, but please keep the debate civil. I will delete comments that I deem to be too nasty.
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I guess all the people who complain about children in business were obviously born as adults?
Here is the thing, we don’t live in some dictatorship, we live in a free society
If I pay money for business class, my child comes with and those around me get to shut the hell up and keep their myopic opinions to themselves.
I find the fact that adults who fly in business and have something negative to say about a baby very disturbing. Like bordering on, do we need to report this person to the police, kind of disturbing.
It’s a baby for God sake, not a loud radio.
OF COURSE nobody has the right to expect no infants will disturb them in “their” cabin. If the baby misbehaves, that’s just something we all have to live with…i.e. First World problems. Hopefully most parents would do their best to calm their kid. That said… WILL… you… JUST… stop… her… from… kicking… my… godd**n… seat…!!! Lol! 😐
We fly bus class with our son and no issues and we will continue to do it.
[…] morning. Note: People have differing opinions on lap infant travel. We have previously covered the baby in business class debate. Wherever you stand on that, this post is meant to inform those who intend to travel with a lap […]
My 6 month old has just finished his 5th flight and his 6th is coming up on the 1st. He has been perfect on every one of them. We consider his schedule for feeding and sleeping BEFORE we book so I think we are being considerate before we ever board a plane. Most of the time I get upgraded to business class right away and I put my wife and son there with one of the other older kids unless we all get upgraded.
On our thanksgiving flight home we rudely encountered one of the “entitled” fliers who was traveling with her family in first class of all things. Long story short, she was actually removed from the flight because she became hostile with my wife for having a baby in 1st class (who didn’t whine or cry the entire hour long flight) and my wife sat calmly and let the flight attendant handle the disruption. The best answer I have ever heard for this argument came from the lead flight attendant who told the lady, “Ma’am, the baby can’t control if He cries or not, the parents can’t control it, we can’t control it, and ma’am you were a baby at one time yourself and your couldn’t control it either.”
I didn’t really know this was an issue until I encountered it personally. This last flight we were upgraded again and my wife was very nervous about another encounter. At the end of the day, we must treat others how we would want to be treated. To make assumptions about every baby is ridiculous and unnecessary. Usually those parents are trying to consider the whole (in main cabin) rather than a few!
[…] searching for Business Class fares. It reminds me of Greg The Frequent Miler’s post: The baby in business class debate. Obviously, mine aren’t babies anymore, but people are more tolerant of screaming babies than […]
Good discussion. For the parents – have you paid attention how many people indicated here that they are not exactly happy having small children next to them in a plane?
Unfortunately airlines do not provide an option to avoid flying with screaming babies in the same space, so the best is to isolate yourself at least virtually. After reading this blog I ordered noise canceling headphones – thank you for advice. That may help not just with the babies, but in other situations as well.
If your baby / toddler is crying when the aircraft is ascending or descending, it likely means that he/she is in pain (that is unless you forget to feed or change diapers). Adults can equalize, most kids under three cannot, not equalizing means pain and the only way to convey to others the pain they are feeling is by screaming. If you as a parent are comfortable inflicting pain to your offspring, fly away, in any class.
Greg you’re reacting emotionally to people pointing out inconsiderate behavior of others. This blog has officially jumped the shark.
[…] Business Class: Is there a more heated topic than bringing babies in business or first class? See this post from Frequent Miler. I never fly in business or first class, so I just can’t get into the arguments. Grab your […]
[…] fly in business class with a baby. I’m not going to repeat that discussion here, see “The baby in business class debate” if you’re interested and missed it. One point that was echoed by a few folks was the […]
I don’t know about you all but I absolutely LOVE hearing babies and toddlers cry in public (and yes that includes planes). Why, you might well ask? Because, being a parent (of now late 20 year olds) and an elementary school teacher myself, when I hear those cries, they are the sweet sound of NOT MY PROBLEM.
I fall in the 2nd and 3rd group. I occasionally get to fly premium economy or business class with my company and I save points from my very small online business that I run on the side.
I think there are a lot of valid points. In a perfect world, there’s a cabin dedicated to families with little ones. But until that happens, families have ZERO obligation to sit in economy class if they have the ability to sit in business.
The one and only time I flew with my 14 month old in transcon biz, we apologized in advance to everyone around us if our son cried a bit. Everyone was accommodating. Like others have posted, keep them entertained, ideally time your flight around their schedule and when they do get upset/fidgety/teary eye, rock them in the galley.
But it seems like a lot of the anti-kids forget that they either had children or were once a child who flew themselves.
There’s a lot of common sense involved here. Bottom line, be considerate of others but do what’s right for you and your family. Chances are, your kiddos will remember some aspect of the travel but you and them certainly won’t remember the strangers that flew with you.
Getting close to a record number of comments yet?
I’m the first person to groan internally when I see a baby or child walking down the aisleway (“please, let them be sitting somewhere else! Please let them be sitting somewhere else!”) I have that reaction whether I’m flying upfront or in economy. However, for the most part, I can live with a little kid noise. My beef in the “flying with kids” arena is LAP CHILDREN in economy class. Notice that I say lap CHILDREN and not lap babies.
With space in back as cramped as it is, any baby older than about six months of age is going to physically encroach on the personal space of adjacent passengers. I once flew a three across with me in the window seat, another PAX in the aisle, and a mom of what had to be the largest 23.75 month old child in history. He was also not happy to be having to sit on mom’s lap, so I got a ton of painful little elbow jabs in my chest. There simply isn’t physical space for lap toddlers like this in the back of the plane. In business class, especially on a flight like Delta one, it wouldn’t have been such an issue. Boo on the airlines for allowing this and boo on parents who don’t buy toddlers their own seat/space on the plane.