Given that the best ever 90K offers for the fee-free Ink Cash and Ink Unlimited cards are ending soon, I decided that it was time for my household to jump in. The results were surprising and awesome. Despite my being over 5/24 and despite having an open Ink Cash card, I applied for another one under the same business and I was instantly approved. Despite my son having opened an Ink Cash card in November, he applied for another Ink Cash with the same business and was instantly approved. And, despite my wife having had another Ink Cash card for years, she applied for another one under the same business and she was instantly approved.
Once we meet the minimum spend on all three cards, the welcome bonuses will add up to 270,000 super-valuable Chase Ultimate Rewards points. And if we complete all of that spend entirely through 5x categories, we’ll earn another 90,000 points for a grand total of 360,000 points!
More than cash back
Chase advertises the Ink Cash card as a cash back card, but it actually earns Ultimate Rewards points. For example, the card’s welcome offer (at the time of writing) is advertised as “$900,” but it is actually delivered as 90,000 Ultimate Rewards points. If this card is the only Ultimate Rewards card in your household, then the best use of points is to cash them out. If you have a Sapphire Preferred, Sapphire Reserve, or Ink Business Preferred card in the household, however, you can then move your Chase Ink points to that card so that you can then transfer points to airline and hotel partners (like Hyatt!) or use points to pay for travel through the Chase portal for better than 1 cent per point value.
The best card for the points & miles game
If you’re serious about earning points and miles, then you need an Ink Cash card. The card earns 5 points per dollar at office supply stores and on internet, cable and phone services on up to $25K spend per cardmember year. It is the office supply store category that’s particularly interesting. You can walk into any Staples or OfficeMax / Office Depot store and buy 3rd party gift cards and earn 5 points per dollar in the process. Or, better yet, Staples and Office Depot have been offering fee-free (or better) Visa and Mastercard deals nearly every week (for details and current deals, see: Best options for buying Visa and MasterCard gift cards). During those deals, you can earn 5x buying these gift cards and then use them to pay just about any bill where credit or debit cards are accepted. If you max out your card’s $25K per membership year 5x limit, you’ll earn 125,000 points each year.
My plan for 3 Ink Cash cards
My plan is to (hopefully) spend all of the required $6,000 at office supply stores in order to earn a total of 30,000 points for the required $6K spend. After earning the 90,000 point bonus, this would mean earning a total of 120,000 points with each of the three cards. This approach worked out great with my son’s Ink Cash card that he picked up in November:
How we’ll use the gift cards
If we complete all three $6K minimum spends by buying Visa/Mastercard gift cards at office supply stores, we’ll have to figure out what to do with $18,000 worth of gift cards. Here are some approaches I have in mind:
- Prepay bills where credit cards are accepted (utilities, insurance, etc.)
- Use a Buyers Club.
- Lend money through Kiva.
Why were our applications approved?
First lets talk about 5/24…
To determine your 5/24 status, see: Easy Ways to Count Your 5/24 Status. The easiest option is to track all of your cards for free with Travel Freely.
I’m currently over 5/24, but my application was instantly approved. It happens. In the past this has been common with cobranded cards such as Southwest or IHG, but for the moment, Chase seems to be allowing at least some people to bypass 5/24 when signing up for the Ink Cash card (and probably the Ink Business Unlimited as well). I’ve seen similar reports in our Frequent Miler Insiders Facebook Group, so I know that this isn’t unique to me. That said, I’m confident that this situation is temporary given that they also apparently suspended 5/24 for these cards, at least for some people, in December.
About getting a second Ink Cash card…
All three of us successfully opened a new Ink Cash card despite already having one open. And my son was approved despite having earned a welcome bonus a couple of months ago. With most Chase cards, there are rules against both of these things. Usually you can’t get a card that you currently have open, and you usually can’t qualify if you’ve earned a welcome bonus in the last 24 months. Fortunately, these rules don’t apply to Chase Ink cards!
See also: How to sign up for Chase Ink cards.
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I tried to get the Ink Business Card and they denied my because of 5/24. The agent on the reconsideration line said that was the only reason it was denied. So we went after the Wyndham cards. Got those now and I am wondering where we should go next. Both me and wife are at 5/24. We are sitting on 313,000 CUR points and about 200,000 Wyndham points. Looking toward going to Europe next year, probably Ireland or Scotland. Any advice as to which way we should go?
I had my P2 do this they were also approved with the same business however, the bonus tracker isn’t showing did you eventually get these bonuses did the tracker show for these cards?
I don’t think I ever looked at the bonus tracker. Yes we earned all of the bonuses.
Just another datapoint- applied P2 for her 2nd Chase Ink Cash card (last one opened on 12/01/22) from my referral and she was instantly approved. Same business on the application. Wow that’s crazy a simple 115K points + 30K from office supply SUB spend. Thanks for the heads up!!
how long do we need to wait to apply for another business card?
I received my Ink business unlimited in January, when can I apply for ink cash without being automatically rejection?
You don’t have to wait. Chase will typically approve up to 2 cards in a month (and sometimes more)
Wanted to add another data point.
I currently am 5/24 with one card dropping off in April and one in June. My credit score fluctuates between 790-810.
In the Chase ecosystem, I have the Freedom Unlimited, Sapphire, Amazon Prime, and the Business Cash.
I applied for the Business Unlimited card on 3/4 with my business’ EIN. I got the “under review message.” That week I got a letter requesting I call to give them more information. I called on 3/11 and gave them my SSN and was transferred to another department so they could review my application. The gentleman I spoke with said that he couldn’t approve it and would need to send it on for further review because the credit limit I already had with my current cards was on the upper limit. He told me the process usually takes 48 hours so if I wanted to, I could call back after that amount of time. I didn’t end up calling because I was out of town.
Yesterday I got an email notification welcoming me to the Chase Ink Business Unlimited. They gave me my credit limit and congratulating me on choosing their card.
I was disappointed when I read that the bonus for these cards would end before I was under 5/24, but decided to take a chance since other people in similar situations were being approved and I’m so glad I did. Thanks for all you do and all the information you share!
My sole proprietor earning is less than my home property tax, which is more than CIC’s SUB limit. Would paying my property tax with CIC flag Chase to look into my accounts or (gasp!) shut down my Chase accounts? I’d like the CIC anyway but wonder if charging so much would displease the Chase overlords.
I don’t think that would raise any red flags at all
Shockingly, I was approved for CIC this morning. (!!!) I question Chase’s standards, hah. Certainly different than Cap1 which recently rejected me, putting a damper on the whole thing – my first rejection ever.
My meager business earning and stated expenses are less than my property tax or the spending to get the SUB. We’ll see if my credit limit is high enough… Thanks for your input.
Data point:
Earlier this month I had an older Ink Unlimited and a very recent Ink Cash. P2 had exactly the same. Both under 5/24.
So “we” went ahead and applied for P2’s second Ink Cash – approved immediately.
Then P2 referred me and I applied for my second Unlimited – not approved – “wait for letter explanation of why not”. Hit to TransUnion only – which was odd as these have always been Equifax.
Then the next day, for some odd inexplicable reason I decided to go for the Ink Cash and see what would happen – same thing as the application for my second Unlimited – same message about wait for letter, but this time no hard pull at all.
I badly wanted to call recon and see what was going on but I fought the impulse … and 10 days later I get an email saying Unlimited #2 was approved. And then yesterday another email saying Ink Cash #2 was approved.
I could hardly believe my luck – and on top of all this I got an alert today from Credit Karma about a change to my score – which showed that my Equifax score actually went UP a notch rather than down and still no hard pull.
This was like winning the lottery !!! Thanks Frequent MIler for the heads-up on these offers not going to last long.
It seems as though Chase with their Business Inks is trying to outdo Amex with their Business Platinums.
Data point–I was declined for a Chase Ink Unlimited today. I’m currently 6/24. I have both a Chase Ink Unlimited and Chase Ink Cash, both of which had been opened for a few years. I have the IHG biz card, which as been opened around a year or so. Applied under my same business EIN as the others. Strange, as Chase had sent me a preapproval mailer on the SW Business Card, but I don’t really want to pay the $199 annual fee.
Data point. My husband was instantly approved for his second ink business cash. He got the chase ink business cash in October and ink unlimited in late November and the ihg business card 2/1. He is 2/24. I did not refer him per Greg’s post/advice.
So, I signed up and got approved, but @greg, why do you think you would get the bonus again? Doesn’t the language say something like “if you have not gotten this in the last 24 months” or something to that effect?
It has to do past history and with where that language is. With most other Chase cards, the splash page for the offer has a link that says “Offer Details” and if you click that, (with non-Ink cards), you’ll see something like “This new Cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current Cardmembers of this business credit card, or (ii) previous Cardmembers of this business credit card who received a new Cardmember bonus for this business credit card within the last 24 months.”
With the Ink cards, you won’t see that language under Offer Details. The only place with Ink cards that shows that type of language is in the fine print on the application screen itself under Certifications:
I think that the language in the fine print is boilerplate but shouldn’t really be there for Ink cards. In the past, that language has been there, but plenty of people (including me) have received the bonus despite still having the card and/or having received a “new Cardmember bonus for this card in the past 24 months.”
Instantly approved for my first CIC. Got my CSR in december and I am at 4/24 currently. I wish I could apply 2nd one before offer ends.
Greg
THANKs I was going to pass so no shut down but saw ur post. I applied 10 mins ago and got the 10 day-thing.But 5 mins later got the approval email .Free $$$$$
Greg, congrats on getting the card. I just applied and got approved (8/24). On another note, are you comfortable making the minimum spend by buying gift cards. I know that Amex clamps down on this, not sure about Chase. Thoughts?
Yes, personally I’m totally comfortable with that. Chase doesn’t specifically target gift card purchases the way Amex does.
My business doesn’t require any spending whatsoever, apart from $50 a month. How could I make this work???
LIE
Many people (including me) use business cards like these for personal spend as well as business spend. If you’re uncomfortable with doing so (which I totally respect), the only option I could think of is to use the card to buy $6K of Visa or Mastercard gift cards which you will then use for your business expenses over time. Of course with only $50 per month spend, you’ll be using those gift cards for a very very long time….
One of your comment seems confusing me – you mentioned ending up with 18K worth of gift cards to liquidate – but mentioned using those to pay for services where credit cards are accepted? isn’t that mixing apples with oranges? …don’t you mean services that are accept gift cards for payment – and which ones are those? Thanks
The gift cards are Visa and Mastercard gift cards which can be used almost anywhere that credit cards are accepted. For example, my insurance company accepts credit cards for bill payments so I could spend those gift cards by paying insurance bills.
And if you use them at Trader Joe’s you can just swipe the card and tell the terminal it’s a credit card and it doesn’t require a PIN. Also TJ’s will drain the card automatically so you don’t have to guess the balance and can use multiple cards.
Same at Costco as long as it’s a VISA – and if it’s a Mastercard you can always use it to buy a Costco gift card online.
P2 is over 5/24 so she tried to have her Chase Inc. cash card product change to a Chase Inc. preferred and was declined. Wanted the preferred card so she could cancel her CSP and still be able to transfer points. Was not trying to get the SUB. But still denied.
Did she call Chase and ask to product change to the Ink Business Preferred? The IBP has a higher minimum credit allocation required ($5K if I recall). If her Ink Cash has a lower limit then that might be why she couldn’t product change.
No, her currant Cash card was 15k, and yes it was on a call and they said they had to do a soft pull and then rejected her, so pissed she told them to cancel the cash card….duh! I still have mine , so no big deal.
I then wheat in and sent her a referral for ink card, waiting for denial, then plan to call reconsideration line, she no longer has any Amex business card open
I’m at 6/24 with one card about to fall off at the end of March and two more in April and I was denied.
It was my first ever business Card application so I decided to call their Recon line to find out the denial reason.
1. Too many cards opened in 24 months
2. Business structure
3. Non business relationships
So, I asked if they’d bypass the cards they will drop off this and next month and she said no, but I could apply again in 30 days or once those cards fall off.
In the end I just went and applied for the Amex Gold Biz and was instantly approved. With my husbands referral bonus of 30K and my 70K SUB we’ll net 110K points. Plus we now have the +5 on his Gold card that’s 9X at the supermarket which is valuable cause with a 4-yr-old we spend a lot on food.
Now I’ll be waiting for this offer to come back around again and then apply as I’ll be under 5/24.
Hi Greg, did you do the 40K points referrals for your wife and son as well?
No. See my comment here.
I was going to apply for CIC but am spooked now after my recent IHG Premier’s limit was only for $2000, and my Cap1 Venture application was denied yesterday. 🙁 Got the CSR 5 months ago but still below 5/24.
Im currently at 6/24, applied for the Ink Cash and it got approved. This is my first business card with chase as well. All of my Chase applications always go pending, I always have to call reconsideration. Recomend applying if you’re at or over 5/24.
Applied for CIC about a week ago. Chase stopped approving me instantly some time ago, and now everything goes pending. Seems like they have to think about it for about 3 business days, but always ultimately approve.
So yes, I got approved for a CIC too!!! (And it’s my second one currently open)
I’m never instantly approved by Chase. I think because of number of cards. Always way below 5/24. I did apply for the Ink Cash, and they just requested proof of business address. Not an issue, it’s an LLC with all the docs. But it is annoying since I have a business checking and 3 business cards with Chase with that name.
The account review department that you can’t call exist and they work 9-5 like other chase agents except their only work is to shut down and blacklist those who do multiple applications or too much credit or other risks chase finds . The account risk review department is bigger than reconsideration department . They don’t care how many cards or if you guys cards approved !
How much is too much? How many cards are too many?
Regarding 1099-MISC, any reports on what is happening in 2023 for year 2022? Has anyone actually gotten 1099s for under $600 from Chase? I don’t mean account X had under $100, I mean your aggregate referrals total were under $600 and you still got a 1099-MISC.
If an application is approved, does that automatically mean that one will receive the 90,000 UR points if meeting the minimum spend, even if one is at the 20 month period since opening the same card? The application says that cardmember will not receive the bonus UR points if you opened the card in the last 24 months. I wonder if a card could be issued and then one wouldn’t receive the bonus points since one is at the 20 month mark?
If you’re approved, you’ll get the bonus. Yes, you’re right about the Terns, but it’s not enforced. No risk, no reward
Just applied through P2 referral link. I am 5/24 and app went pending, was approved by recon. This is my 2nd Ink cash card, last one applied in Jan 2022.
Hey Greg. I applied and was denied on December 28, 2022 due to 5/24. Called recon and they weren’t able to approve it. Is there any chance I could get approved if I try again?
Yes there’s a chance. Definitely can’t guarantee anything
Sounds good. Thank you! I know all this is such an inexact science.
John let us know if you got approved the second time.
Will do. Waiting on a secure message response to me asking if the referral link can be used to still get the 90k offer.
No instant approval for me. My application went pending and I am definitely way over 5/24, I’m more like 20/24 lol. Is there anything I can do on my end to get approved for the card?
Not that I know of
Can you pay personal taxes via PayTaxUSA (1.87% credit card fee) with a CIC?
Yes but there have been some issues lately and people have reported that an easy workaround is to link the Ink card to PayPal and pay taxes with PayPal
Can you link a Visa gift card and pay taxes that way and earn the 5%?
Yes you can
Great!
I got both ink cards in Nov/Dec for biz #1. Got a CIC for biz #2 in Feb. Been more than 30 days but not sure I should risk another ciu for biz #2.
Greg,
Can you shed any more light on your stats other than simply the fact that you’re over 5/24? Exactly how many cards show as opened in the last 24 months on whatever credit report Chase pulls in your state?
I’m at 6/24 with 2 cards dropping off in April
Greg, here’s a data point.
Having seen reports that 5/24 was not an issue, I thought that I’d give it a try. I was immediately rejected for three reasons:
– Over 5/24
– Insufficient deposit history (in spite of $100k balances over a multi-year history)
– Business structure (while I have three LLCs, I applied under my sole proprietorship)
In years past, I had substantially greater assets with Chase. Substantially greater. No consideration to waive 5/24. So much for “relationship” banking. At this point, I have a nominal relationship with Chase and I have no expectations.
To those who were successful, congratulations.
Sorry to hear that.
Instant denial at 5/24. 780+ credit, 20 year history with chase with checking and savings accounts and 6 other business cards, 8 personal cards. Just received three unsolicited credit line increases for total credit (biz and personal) of 55% of income.number 5 should drop off at end of month so will recon after that
Sorry to hear that! Good luck with recon!
Did you try going into a branch?
Such a great post Greg! Also, not many people know this but if you apply for a business credit card through a Business Relationship Manager & they send you a docusign application, it doesn’t count towards the 5/24 rule!
A business relationship manager usually manages businesses with at least a 1 million in revenue, but they can send an application to anyone.
Thanks Kirsten. I know that applying through a BRM used to circumvent 5/24 but as far as I was aware that ended several years ago. Do you have experience suggesting that that’s true again today? That would be great.
Greg, it’s true. I do all my application for Chase biz cards through my relationship manager and I’ve never had an issue with 5/24, or even the 2 year before you can get the bonus again (I don’t have $1m in revenue either).
Yes! I’m a BRM myself so I do it for my clients all the time
Serious question – are you taking new clients? Small business owner currently banking with AXOS looking to possibly switch.
Hi Tee,
Yes, always happy to help or connect you with someone if I can’t do it myself
Awesome – thank you so much, Kirsten! Best email to reach you?
It seems my comment with my email can’t get approve to be posted. It’s my first.last name @chase
Thank you!!
Hi, I am so excited to apply for these Chase Ink Business cards! Sad the offer is expiring.
My questions:
1. You can apply to the same Ink, say “Ink Business Cash” under two methods, SSN and EIN?
2. Can a person with 2 Sole Proprietor businesses (me) have EIN for each business? Or am I limited to just one EIN per Sole Proprietor no matter how many businesses I have under that entity? That part is a bit confusing to me, but seems to be limited to one EIN.
3. Should I do EIN or SSN first if I am going to do both anyway on the same Ink card?
4. For my other half, do you have to have reported income to IRS to qualify for a business credit card? Example, small dogsitting gig but you get cash and no more than $600/year. So its not reported.
Thank you for all of your info and help!
IMO, it’s your SSN that determines how many card(s) of one type, not the number of EINs you have. One card per SSN regardless the number of businesses you have. Reported income – IRS – I don’t think necessarily gets into the picture or I have never with Amex or Chase or BOA apps.
Thank you Greg! And… to clarify for the #2 question, are you saying I can apply for two different EINs, one for each of my two sole proprietor businesses?
Is it possible that though your son was approved for the card that he won’t get the 90K SUB paid out after meeting the minimum spend, given that he received the SUB on this card recently? I read the application rules as not necessarily precluding card approval but precluding repeat SUB earning within 24 months. Would hate to spend that $6K only to get no SUB (though you’d still at least be earning the 5x on fee free GCs.)
That’s a logical reading of it, but many people have earned multiple bonuses on these cards in less than 24 months so I’m not worried about that here.
Hi Greg. Is it possible that all of these applicants that are getting a second (or 3rd) card within 24 months will be rudely awakened when Chase denies their 90k bonus upon hitting their spend minimum? I thought Chase’s rule is no bonus if you’ve received a bonus within 24 months for the same card. Since folks are getting approved does that mean Chase will grant the bonus points of min is met or is this a gross assumption? Sorry for being redundant. Thx
Great question. In my experience, as long as you are approved and meet the spend requirements Chase will grant the bonus
I really want to go for this. My P2 just got approved for a second Ink Cash.
But does anyone have a view on how many chase cards is too many? I currently have 3 business cards (Hyatt, Ink Cash, United) and 7 personal (Hyatt, multiple freedoms, 2 x IHG). When I google “how many chase cards can I have,” I get all sorts of crap. I could easily close one of the IHG cards though would prefer not to.
Do you guys have over 10?
I would lay low and not keep applying as you may get all your card closed and blacklist you !
Are you basing that on any data? I see that kind of thing generally but I am curious about what the FM team and others think.
I agree with Sam. Most blogs, like DOC reference pages, say Chase does not care on the number of cards, but the amount of credit extended is the number. IMO it’s always YMMV too. You won’t get a warning shot across the bow when Chase review does not like it. Just my opinion as I would love to get another card, but just got approved a week ago and will wait at least 90 days for another.
This is good advice.
Somewhat recklessly I went ahead and tried. 4/24. Have an ink cash already. Bonus 20 months ago. Instant approval! Probably playing with fire.
Just applied and was approved for the Ink Cash! (already have the Ink Plus and Unlimited)
Thanks for the heads up!
It’s definitely very YMMV. I got decline email a day later, stating too many accounts, and I’m right at 5/24, so not like I’m a heavy churner. The recon call didn’t help.
Several months back I got declined on an Ink app and a similar letter – too many accounts opened. So all the blogs say 5/24 is the number on personal cards. As long as you are under 5/24, business cards are not an issue. I say wrong. The number of business cards approved in a rolling 12 months enters the picture. Similar to BOA. No data points but just my experience. And I have a business checking and personal checking, but still got declined several months back. Applied a week ago, and finally got approved for an Ink card. FICO 800+ full C corporation since 1989. YMMV!
I am at 5/24 on personal cards, but with some BofA biz cards, it’s more like 8/24. We’ll see if in a few months it makes a difference, once some of them fall off.
I spreadsheet my timing for all apps. Of course I track 5/24 and also rolling 12 months too. I hate getting a FICO hit and no card! At the end of the day regardless of what is posted it is YMMV. The rest are reader comments. Good but don’t hang your hat on it so to speak. Good Luck.
Why is chase doing this? The’ve had these best of offers for months on these cards and they seem to be willing to allow just about anyone to keep getting them over and over.
This seems WAY too good to be true, right?
You don’t read about the denials and account shut down and ban of those who got approved ?
I have certainly not read about account shut downs after Chase approves you for a card. Can you suggest where I might read about it?
Google chase closed my accounts and you will see endless posts ! Yes the review department doesn’t care you are approved or not cos they are the separate department . It is kind of like the immigration officer at the port of entry vs the visa counselor ina foreign country who gave you visa to travel . The immigration officer very often denies entry and deport people who airways for visa approved at the embassy . The risk review department is more powerful then anyone and they shut down and permanently blacklist you
None of those links suggest that opening credit cards with Chase is a risk factor. They all discuss cycling, point selling, utilization increase, etc. Greg wrote about this a few years ago at this link: https://frequentmiler.com/why-chase-shutdowns-have-increased-and-how-to-avoid-them/.
The only relationship between opening a credit card and getting shutdown is that opening a credit card may be one of many factors that starts a risk review. So, yeah, if you’re cycling or doing other things that are generally known to lead to account shutdown you might want to consider not opening any new cards to see if you can continue to fly under the radar. But if you’re a more typical user, no reason to fear simply opening a new card.
My educated guess is that they have a strategic goal to expand their customer base for these cards and so they’re doing everything they can to get people to sign up: bigger bonuses, sometimes relaxed 5/24, etc.
I guess. They have to be losing tons though off these no annual fee cards. Amex does this with the NLL Bus Platinums, but at least they still make $700 back in fees.
But giving people a 42nd (or whatever) of the same card isn’t really expanding their customer base. . .
Correct had 15 used 2 or 3 so my profit not theirs.Free $$$
Were you able to use a referral link? I don’t think the prior offer of 20k referral points for 90k SOB works anymore.
I applied without a referral. See my reasoning here
Read this post this morning, immediately referred my wife who is at 5/24 currently but got immediate decline. I did the Amex referral last night for her as well so maybe that is the reason because of the recent inquiry? Since it was an immediate decline, think she could call the recon line now or wait for letter that said it will come in 7-10 days explaining why? Note, P1 (me) has applied and approved for 3 Chase Ink cards (2 of them Ink Cash) in the past 12 months.
It can’t hurt to call recon immediately.
I’m just now reading about the direct luck. I did referral so before calling, do you think it wise or not to try again today, hours later, with same information (i.e. her SS#) direct application?
Interesting idea! I can’t think of any reason not to try it. The hard pulls will get combined into one since it is same day
Just tried direct and no luck. Will get P2 to try the Recon line today to see if that moves the ball. Think it could be related to hard pull last night on the Amex Gold referral? Also, is there a place to paste my referral for this chase ink deal for others (and I get referral bonus since can’t get for P2) just like i did earlier today to Nick’s post asking for them for the Amex Gold one?
They use an affiliate link for Chase cards, so no reader referrals for Chase. Only for Amex when the best sign-up bonuses come exclusively from personal referrals, which is the case at the moment.
Thanks Bob. I’m still learning so appreciate the help. I found FM last year, listened to all podcasts, drastically changed my game BUT feel there is still so much to digest. Appreciate you and the community.
TSR may i know in which months and the order which you’ve applied for these cards? I just got approved for a CIU this week, am at 5/24, but considering a CIC before the offer ends. Ty!
To Preface: I’m personally under 5/24 and have 5 Chase Biz cards all acquired in last 12 months plus some non-chase cards. My wife (P2) is the one that got denied twice today for the CIC (via referral first time, and direct the 2nd time) and she doesn’t have any Ink cards but does have the Chase IHG Biz card (also received in last 12 months). So, not sure my answer to your question applies, but here is my months/order of Chase Biz cards…
CIC – 4/22
CIU – 7/22
SW Biz Performance – 10/22
SW Biz Premier – 11/22
CIC – 2/23
None of them were instantly approved. All said under review. The first 4 called me and asked a couple questions. The last one was declined, but I called the Recon line and separately dialed down my credit on most of my 5 consumer cards thinking that might help. Took a couple weeks before hearing approval.
Thanks for the datapoints! I was just approved for the CIU, although i’m at 5/24. had to recon to answer some basic identity questions, but was also able to have them match the 90K offer even though I used my P2’s referral link that offered a 40K referral bonus.
I’m on the similar boat. Did the Recon line approve P2’s application?
I applied but got a ‘we’ll get back to you message’. Normally get that type of thing from Chase. They call and we shift credit lines around. 48 hrs later and nothing. Hopefully I’m not reading the situation wrong.
I got an email later in the day that I was approved ☺️
Am I missing something here? If you’re in 2 or 3 player mode, wouldn’t you have been better off doing the 40k referral bonus and the 75k offer instead of the 90k offer? If my calculations are correct, you would have netted a total of 435k points instead of 360k points if you only did office supply spend to get the bonus on 3 Chase Ink Cash cards.
You’re not missing anything. There were a few reasons we applied without referrals:
Frequent Miler is rightfully known for your ethical approach to referrals (eg, only encouraging use of your referral links when the applicant could not get a better offer elsewhere). Even with that reputation it’s to your credit that you even raised this issue:
I have no reason to suspect that one is more likely to be approved directly than via referral but I’ve often wondered if the “cost of acquisition” is a factor in determining approvals and if the additional cost to pay out a referral might, in some cases, tip the balance against an approval.
I’m sure that other bloggers would not even contemplate in print the possibility that there might occasionally be an advantage to applying directly without a referral.
Thanks Larry. Do note though that there are actually at least four ways you can apply online:
My comments were just saying why I didn’t go with #1, above. For the record, we actually did click through indirect affiliate links but I didn’t write that because I didn’t want to suggest that you’d be more likely to be approved by clicking through affiliate links than by going through Chase directly. That seems very unlikely.
Greg. Can you clarify/guess at what threshold Chase is sending out 1099-Misc forms? Sounded like in 2020 it as $600 or higher (with each point being valued at .01) and then in 2021 it dropped less than that? Is there any reports out there of what it is currently? AMEX policy of 60k points ($600) certainly better if Chase reduced this below $600. Thanks!
I don’t know the current situation with that
You could have generate referal links a week ago for 90k bonus and 20k referal.
FWIW I just got instant approval for a second ink cash. Received bonus on the first one 20 months ago. Used P2’s 40k referral and my sign up bonus is 75k. So, at least one data point of the 40k referral working. I am at 4/24 though so cannot say if 5/24 would work.
Refferals are taxed. A direct 90k is better for some people depending on tax bracket
US taxes >100% lol
Referrals earn 115k total with 40k being a referral. Who is in a tax bracket where tax on $400 is greater than 25,000 points? Even if you value chase points conservatively at like 1.25 cents, you would have to be in an 80 percent bracket.
Not my experience — I do feel Chase hates me though :). Excellent credit, semi legit business. Have 5 total biz cards from 4 other issuers -Cit, Barclay, Amex, BofA– so other issuers apparently love me! But no matter what I do Chase declines me solely because of 5/24. Im sure im in their database somewhere so I guess this may be one ecosystem for me to write off. Im glad other people are finding success though.
When did you apply? Dan’s Deals previously reported that Chase had suspended 5/24 for Ink cards in December. He has since removed that bit from the post but Doctor of Credit reported it here: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/reports-chase-5-24-rule-temporarily-suspended-on-ink-cards-through-december-31st/
Anyway I’m wondering if it is happening again. In other words, maybe they restarted 5/24 Jan 1 and then sometime later suspended it again. Just guessing.
@Greg-
Are you applying via business as LLC, S Corp etc etc and what income do you usually put down on these CC apps to get approved? Thanks!
I did LLC, my wife and son did sole props. My wife used her SSN as the tax ID and my son used an EIN.
Monday of this week — called Recon yesterday after form letter denial. CSR said its 100% because of 5/24 (called it a Chase “hard stop”) and then went through my 5/24 list with me (which I knew pretty well already). I may call again for rep roulette.
That’s interesting. Assuming the rep you spoke with was correct, there are several possibilities:
I would have thought that any relaxation of 5/24 would be based on something they can determine about you, like that you spend a lot on your existing cards with them. Not on some seemingly random factor like your location.
But now I’m wondering if they have risk management standards which require them to balance their portfolio across one or more factors (like geography) that might appear random to us but are meaningful when looking at the entire portfolio. Maybe they’re 3% over the percent of accounts they want in New York and are trying to add more middle-of-the-country accounts. Who knows?
Applied for another Ink Cash for P1 and P2 and both denied. Both 5/24 and both already have Ink Cash. Seemed too good to be true. Should I bother with reconsideration?
It can’t hurt to try recon. Maybe just try P1 to see what happens and then go on to P2 if successful.
Any datapoint on how did it go with Recon line? Thanks
As a household you guys would be better off referring each other because that’s 5k more than the 90k offer through website links.
Taxes?
See my reasoning here
The approval doesn’t mean the review department won’t shut down . I wouldn’t apply for chase card more than once a year and always stay under 5/24. The approval and risk review departments are different and the later is wild and cruel
I’m not aware of situations where Chase has shut down account unless the customer does things that make it look like they are a credit risk. https://frequentmiler.com/why-chase-shutdowns-have-increased-and-how-to-avoid-them/
I know someone who got 2nd ink card approved recently and his first card was 4 years ago . Chases grilled him about the business and papers and eventually both ink got shut down and now his personal cards are closed followed by a letter to use up his remaining points ! The account review department is separate from the approval department and they don’t care !
Wow, that’s crazy. Thanks for that warning. I’ll keep an eye on that.
There is something else going on in this case beyond applying for two credit cards in a period of four years.
Sam – dealing with this right now, trying to get my third Chase Biz card. Horrible experience. Chase Risk review are nasty people.
Hey Jeff, how many Chase Biz and Personal cards do you have and when did you last apply for a Chase Biz and Personal cards? Are you under 5/24? What info is the Chase Risk review requesting? Good Luck!!!
Under 5/24
Got my 6 Personal card in September
They have extended me too much credit per the horrible/ rude customer service rep.
Wanted income levels
Wife was approved for IHG card and activated it. One day later, all her Chase accounts were shutdown for no reason. She had one other Chase card at the time and was light on card application, below 5/24, FICO +800. This bank is not for ordinary working class.
Love you guys but this sorta feels like one that should have been whispered not shouted.
I went through the application but canceled when I got to where I’m to certify the card will not be used for personal expenses, and that the rewards will not be used for the benefit of an individual. I don’t want to give Chase a reason to shut me down!
I’ve never heard of Chase (or any other bank) shutting anyone down for using a business card for personal stuff. That said, if it concerns you then you definitely made the right call.
I suspect one reason they say a business card is not for personal expenses is that in a merchant dispute, you don’t have the same legal protections. Banking is heavily regulated and they need a CYA. I also have never heard of a bank closing a business account for personal purchases.
Have you ever looked at the offers on a Chase (or Amex) business card? A large number of them (Home Chef, Showtime, etc.) could only reasonably be used as a personal expense. The credit card issuers don’t care if you use a business card for personal expenses.
I’ve looked at many offers and am aware of the variation in verbiage across them. Quite simply, however, at the end of the CC application I have to check a box that certifies I am not using the Chase Business Ink Cash card or rewards for personal expenses and benefit. That solely is what I’m speaking to. It makes me uncomfortable to knowingly misrepresent my intentions on a card application. I have over 30 CCs already, so I’ve been in the game a while.
I didn’t get those questions on my application for P2 this am. And never seen those in my approved 5 Chase Biz cards in the last 12 months.
Interesting! They weren’t questions, however. It’s the box you have to check at the end of the application before submitting. The one that says effectively “By submitting this application, I certify that…” followed by several bullet points.
This is worth discussing.
Regarding 5/24: The relaxation of 5/24 is almost certainly temporary and intentional on Chase’s part. The same apparently happened in December: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/reports-chase-5-24-rule-temporarily-suspended-on-ink-cards-through-december-31st/. Given that, I felt that this wasn’t the type of thing that could be “killed” by reporting my experience. Instead, it gives many readers the chance to jump on it while it’s possible and while the bonus is 90K. I don’t see a downside there.
Regarding getting the same card again: This is something that we’ve reported in various ways a number of times in the past. Is it something that should be hinted at rather than explained in the first paragraph? Maybe. On this one, I could imagine posts like this leading Chase to re-evaluate criteria for Ink approvals.
Did I miss a reason it should be whispered?
Thoughts?
As you said, I think Chase has a goal to get more customers. They certainly know what they are doing; the award points sitting in peoples’ accounts have value to them. Who knows how they pick and choose the approvals. I vote no need to whisper. There is no telling how much Chase and AX have gained from FM!
Question: I thought it was recommended not to buy 3rd-party GC to earn the SUB. Or is that mainly an Amex issue?
Correct, it’s an Amex issue
Chase not enforcing the 24 month and same card thing is so out there that even knew about it and I’m pretty out of tune these days. This was not a closely held secret. By the time it’s all over doctor of credit and flyertalk, I think you guys have the green light.
5/24: I agree with you on this. It’s intentional on Chase’s part is my guess.
Same card: If the big website picks it up it won’t last. The trend by the banks is to eliminate the butter factories. Could be wrong (probably? hopefully?).
I think people should openly share experience one way or the other! In your article you added the caveat that a person should take advantage *only if they are comfortable putting personal expenses on a business card*.
I started the application because in general, I don’t have any qualms against doing that, but Chase requiring me to attest I *will not use the card in this way* gave me great pause. Historically, as far as we know, no Chase shutdowns have resulted from such abuse, but Chase has covered itself in the event they take action later by requiring applicants to certify upfront that they will not use the card for personal expenses.